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Jimbocious

Capt. Dunlap Battle-Authenticated M1941?????

26 posts in this topic

Of course I mean, is the story of the rifle verified?.... :-) I fully believe that the news story was actually published in the "Galesburg Register-Mail" and I certainly believe that the gun store somehow acquired a Johnson rifle (it's right there in the picture!), but everything I've read in the Canfield book, here, and elsewhere makes it seem like actual battle-used Johnsons probably existed but no-one could prove that any specific rifle had been battle-used. And, if the back-story is true, wouldn't the estate have made off much better $$$$-wise to put it up for auction with the backstory prominently publicized instead of some quiet local sale??? Inquiring minds want to know!

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It would be impossible for us to know for sure , but.... He did enter the Corp in 1942. He did join the paramarines , one of the few outfits that had Johnsons at that time. He was in the Bougainville fight and so could have carried one. He was made an officer. It is a known fact that after the Johnsons were removed from the units , many " old salts " kept thiers . Although technically frowned upon , several did so , so it was not unheard of. Many of those Johnsons ended up on Iwo in the hands of Paramarines who were then in the 5th Marines ( as he was ) . After WW2 was over , the Johnson had been obsolete in service for a while , so it was no big deal to take one home ( unlike full autos or current issue M1911s or Garands ) and the break-down feature would have made sea-bag stuffing easy . It would not be unthinkable for his men to do this for him. Although the actual tapes were not available for us to hear , it is alluded to , in the article , that he , himself , said it was his rifle . If I was forced to sell a family heirloom , I would like it to go to someone who loved it too and would give it a good home , as long as I recieved a fair price. Chris

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We are going to look into this in more detail, which may take some time. In the meantime, the basic story is covered in Canfield's book "Johnson's Rifles and Machine Guns" by Mowbray on pages 150 & 151. There will be more info later.

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The rifle in the photo doesn't have the ears cut and ground off of the front sight.. I was under the impression that was standard procedure with the USMC rifles in the Pacific.

In any event, good for Robert and Brad Simpson for getting a good story with the gun.. It keeps people talking.

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Cut off ears by the MC was not standard practice. I have a documented Para-marine rifle with ears and a picture of a marine on his cot on the canal with ears. There is a picture of the beach landing on Bouganville with a barrel with ears visible. I have replaced many sights without ears. Modifying military sights was very common in the 50's and 60's.

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That's good feedback.. thank you To be honest, I have always thought it a bit strange that the ears were cut/ground off by one group of users, when a person down the line with an M1 is using the same basic front sight with 'ears'. Perhaps that's the difference of having been issued and accustomed to the design from the beginning vs having something dropped off for use. ...Bobby said the Johnson was the most accurate rifle ever made. It hit everything he aimed at... Some could argue being the most accurate ever made.. but I will say that my JSAR will out shoot my Garands of the same era..

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Cutting was done , but not to any great extent. The stateside based armorers were " old salts " brought up on the '03 , so they did some Reisings and prob'ly a few Johnsons that they could get thier hands on . A few individuals did it to get more light around the sight under jungle conditions , but most did not . I recall that back in the '70s and '80s , Johnsons were common and narley a one had cut sights . A few months after it was " revieled " that cut sights was " proof " of USMC ownership , narley a one had uncut sights . Draw your own conclusions from this little fact. Chris

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Let me throw in my $.02 on this one. Back in 1957 & '58 I worked as a smokejumper in Cave Junction, OR. The base closed down in 1981 for fiscal reasons and it is now called the Siskiyou Smokejumper Base Museum. About 12 years ago there was a reunion of jumpers who had worked at the Cave Junction base with the reunion held at the old closed base. I attended along with my wife--just a bunch of old guys sitting around drinking beer and telling war stories. I was sitting at a picnic table with a couple of older guys--and let me interject that I am now coming up on 79, so I would have been in my mid 60's at the time of this reunion. There was a man sitting next to me, who I did not know, but who was much older than me. I introduced myself and asked if he had served in either the 82nd Airborne or the 101st Airborne, as a number of paratrooper veterans from WW2 had taken jobs as smokejumpers after they were discharged from the service. In fact our boss had served in the 82nd and had been wounded at Market Garden. The man to whom I was speaking introduced himself as Dick Courson and said that he had served as a Paramarine and casually mentioned that he fought on Iwo Jima. He had been in Charlie Company, 1st. Battalion, 26th Marines, 5th Marine Div. and had landed on Iwo Jima on Feb. 19, 1945. I knew that some of the Paramarines had carried Johnson rifles and asked him if he had ever seen one. He told me that he had been issued one while in parachute training but had to give it up when he deployed to the Pacific. Courson also told me that his company commander--Bobby Dunlap (Courson called him "Bobby") had carried one on Iwo until he was wounded on Feb. 22, 1945. Courson told me that Dunlap had crawled out from the Marine lines to locate the source of Japanese artillery fire, found the location of the Jap guns, took a radio with frequencies to reach USN ships off shore, went back to the location of the guns and called in naval gunfire--essentially on his own position--and was then wounded while crawling back to the Marine lines. Dunlap was awarded the Medal of Honor. Dick Courson is still alive and lives in Pendleton, OR. Dick had dropped out of high school as soon as he turned 17 in March of 1942 to join the Marines. After the war he "lied" his way into college and then had to drop out in order to earn a living but then "lied" his way into law school, graduated, passed the Oregon Bar exam. worked in private practice for two years, then ran for district attorney and was elected. He served as D.A. for 10 years and was then appointed to the Superior Court Bench by the then Gov. of Oregon. He served as a Senior Superior Court judge for over 25 years, and he NEVER FINISHED HIGH SCHOOL!!! They don't make 'em like that any more--someone broke the mold I took my then 13 yr. old granddaughter to meet him last summer--she was awed. I saw the article about the Dunlap rifle on a web site a couple of weeks ago and contacted Brad Simpson, and suggested that he post the info. of the rifle on the this web site. I hope that you were able to help him. Black Tom

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I can not relate to this rifle but I can tell you I would be real careful of anything I was interested in Buying from Simpson LTD !!- About 35 years ago I sold a P-08 with almost no finish to a guy named Delbert S.(worked for Bob Simpson) at a local gun show ! even though I am not a dealer I required him to furnish an FFL because it was a law in Illinois at that time!! The markings on this pistol were kind of unique; and so was the condition!! About 10-20% finish and the rest was brown. Well you guessed it already the FFL was from Simpson LTD; and the next CADA show the gun was being sold as a MINT Original at over $5500.00 !! Must be that magic gun oil they use in that place !

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Never having done any business with Simpson Ltd., I can't comment about their integrity. I had read the article in the Galesburg Register-Mail on another web site and was interested due to my friendship with Judge Courson and knowing that he had served under Capt. Dunlap. There were some obvious inaccuracies in the newspaper article, i.e. "jungle" on Iwo Jima, firing single rounds from their 1919 machine guns, 100 men standing up while under fire to "present arms" etc. and Simpson's comment about the Johnson being a "late war" issue rifle. Be that as it may, I did call Simpson's and spoke to Brad Simpson who confirmed that the rifle that he bought did not have a letter prefix serial number. I suggested that he contact johnsonautomatics.com and post the s/n. I don't know if he did make contact. That won't prove that the rifle he has was one of the ones given by Melvin Johnson to the Marines, but if the serial numbers of the various parts shown in the records match the numbers of the parts on the rifle in his possession, it would be a good indicator that he has an authentic Paramarine rifle. Obviously some parts could have been changed between 1942 and now, but it would seem logical that if the rifle was simply in a closet in Dunlap's home for all these years most of the part s/n would match. Simpson did mention that Dunlap had been his math teacher in school and that he bought the rifle with no intention of selling it--that may, or may not, be factual. If Mr. Johnson or the site administrator wish to contact Brad Simpson his phone number is (309) 342-5800. Black Tom

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I remember driving out to buy rifles from Robert Simpson long before he ever had a gunshop and I have more than one reason to stop doing business with him and his business-- There are always other sources to buy firearms when you have the cold hard cash !! I am sorry to have posted this comment up two entries but at the same time it is like a duty to tell people that where there is smoke there usually is a fire! I was in the process of buyng a pair of Tangent sighted pre war consecutive numbered hipowers from Bob Simpson;(represented as 99% original blue finish) gave hima $500.00 deposit; when I saw the guns for the first time they were obviously re-finished-not original like he said!! So I refused to complete the deal and he would not return my money!!Never bought anything from him again! And will never again! That and the P-08 Luger he bought from me before this are enough to know there is a lack of integrity in that house!!

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Let's cut back on the negative comments, that was not the reason for this website. There are others sites that might be more suitable for them.

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Mr. Scott, I trust that your criticism is not directed to me. I simply posted that I was acquainted with a fine man, who I greatly admire, and who had served under Capt. Dunlap during the battle for Iwo Jima and who had told me that he had seen Capt. Dunlap carrying a 1941 Johnson rifle during the battle. I also mentioned that I had spoken to Mr. Brad Simpson and had suggested to him that he post the serial number of the rifle, that he purchased, on this board to compare part serial numbers with the numbers in the factory records. If this is offensive to you, or any other member, please let me know and I will refrain from any future posts. Black Tom

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It was not directed to you or any information concerning Johnson products and history, but against comments on handgun dealers not related to this website. Every comment or question about Johnson products adds to our shared knowledge base, keep those coming.

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As I mentioned previously, above, we are looking into the matter of the Dunlap rifle, which may take some time. The serial number is a very low one, so we have to be careful in determining provinance. And I agree with Joe Scott...let's take it easy on any dealers. As for "Black Tom" and his historical comments on Dunlap, those are very interesting and we'll save them. Thank you very much for posting that story.

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From what I understand, the Dunlap Rifle is destined for a local museum and is not being placed on the market. I think this would be very appropriate if it comes to pass. We'll know more later on after the Dunlap family is able to confirm certain information. We'll keep everyone posted.

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On a slightly related topic, I received a call from an old friend who was inquiring about rifles that had been previously sold as part of a Johnson "Estate Sale" in the California area by a "Doctor." This is to re-confirm what most of you already know....there was no such sale by the the Johnson Family. Any personal firearms property of the inventor, Melvin M. Johnson, Jr., is accounted for, is in trusted hands, and is preferably slated for Museums in the future. So if any of you stumble into someone who claims to have property from a Johnson "Estate Sale" be sure to refer them to me so we can have a nice little "chat." You can use the following E-mail address for this purpose: EdwardR.Johnson72@gmail.com

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When I spoke to Brad Simpson--which was about three weeks ago--he told me that he bought the rifle at the Dunlap estate sale and found out later that it was not supposed to have been sold (the Dunlap family had wanted to keep it) and he was considering selling it back to the family. If that is the case, why would he simply not return it to the family and have them reimburse him for the money he spent? I suggested that if the family did not want it back, that he contact the USMC Historical museum in Quantico, VA to inquire about the museum's interest. He said that he had contacted the museum and that would like to have the rifle BUT that the museum did not want to buy it--they wanted it donated. I don't find the museum's position to be unusual. The museum, just like the USMC Memorial at Arlington, VA is funded by contributions from Marines, and the general public, and does not receive funding from taxes. So if Mr. Simpson is now considering donating it to a "local museum" why would he not donate it to the Marines? I also suggested that he contact johnsonautomatics.com and give the s/n to see if the components that are currently on the rifle match those in the factory records. It does not appear that Mr. Simpson has taken that step, and this seems rather puzzling. Perhaps "Oldtirediron" has raised some valid concerns. Black Tom

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that marine that Joseph Scott refers to as sitting on his cot is probably my uncle. i have talked to numerous Paramarines from my uncle unit ,told me they used to call my uncle "Ace" because he was a crack shot with the Johnson rifle on Guadalcanal. iasked one of them if they knew what happened to my Uncles rifle and one of them told me that it was given to one of them when he was going back over ,and he lost it in action.

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I was given more information on the above marine. He was a native American and there were several others in the para-marines with him. I was sent a roster including him. There is a pair of cleated football shoes under his cot. It is likely that he helped defend on "bloody Ridge" with his Johnson. He is buried in the national cemetery near Buffalo NY.

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That is my uncle,Kenneth Parker. Seneca Indian (Beaver Clan) lived on Cattaraugus Indian Reservation, 30 miles south of Buffalo ,NY. There is a man that lives in Buffalo,NY that was in the same company as my uncle,i talk to him often and have had lunch with him. He is buried in Woodlawn National Cemetary,Elmira ,NY. i visit his grave site at least once a year.as it is about 3 hours from our reservation. He was wounded on Bloody Ridge,and KIA Iwo Jima 19Feb45. About a year ago a lady from the reservation gave me a jewerly box with USMC carve on top tat my uncle had given to her as they were dating at the time.the family told me that they all agreed that i should have it.

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Sorry to revive such an old thread. But would like to know if the provenance of the socalled Dunlap M1941 had been authenticated recently?

The SN shows to be A0009.

The Dunlap M1941 was also on Julias Auction page.

http://jamesdjulia.com/item/lot-3051-extremely-early-johnson-model-1941-semi-auto-rifle-that-was-issued-to-medal-of-honor-recipient-captain-robert-h-dunlap-usmc-48279/

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I never received any further provenance corroboration on the above, so cannot comment further on what I already stated. Ed J

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