UPDATE to 5.7 mm users

[Ed Johnson 0]

The following is an updated letter I send to new and existing members of our informal "5.7 Club" with an emphasis on my primary concerns. Thank you for your indulgence. Ed J

To all potential and existing Johnson 5.7 Club Members.....update effective 10/31/15......

 

As an introduction for new members, I am the 2nd son of the inventor, Melvin M. Johnson, Jr., who, among other things, was the designer of the Johnson Semiautomatic Rifle and Johnson Light Machine Gun. Here is some basic info and history on our 5.7 Club.

We are still primarily concerned with M1 Carbines as manufactured or converted to the MMJ 5.7mm Johnson cartridge as designed by my father, Melvin M. Johnson, Jr., in collaboration with John (Jack) Fitzgerald in Connecticut. These were produced during the mid sixties. After my father died in 1965, we continued with limited production and closed the company in 1967. The 5.7mm development and project history is included in the book mentioned below.

There were also some other small manufacturers of 5.7 Carbines in the past. The most common ones were Johnson Guns, Hamden, CT (Dad's); Johnson Arms, New Haven, CT (mine); Plainfield Machine, Dunnelen, NJ (who sold us parts and receiver castings); Iver Johnson (no relation to Dad or myself), who bought Plainfield Machine;  plus Johnston-Tucker, briefly during the sixties.

 

I.A.I in Texas was the most recent manufacturer of 5.7mm (.224) Carbines. At this time, we are not aware of any current 5.7 production manufacturers. We have heard that IAI had some quality control issues. If you run across or purchase any IAI products, we suggest having an experienced gunsmith work on the piece.

WARNING:  There is now a 5.7 mm high velocity pistol cartridge which is much shorter than the Carbine round and will not operate properly in the Spitfire M1 Carbines. There are also slightly different variations on the MMJ 5.7 mm cartridge, using different names, some of which, if loaded into a Spitfire, may cause serious problems. Please use caution. There are differences between the MMJ 5.7mm round, versus .22 Hornet, .19 Calhoun, .30 M1 Carbine (obviously), .19 Badger and .222 - .223 Remington (for AR-15/M-16 series).
 
You are strongly encouraged to purchase the most recent book on my father's work, titled Johnson's Rifles and Machine Guns, written by noted author Bruce Canfield, based on an original manuscript by Robert Lamoreaux and with family material provided by myself. This book also covers the history and development of the 5.7 project; it is available from Mowbray Publishers at 1 800 999 4697.

In addition, there is info at:   www.johnsonautomatics.com   which has a 5.7 page plus a message board section devoted to the 5.7 project. There is not usually too much activity as this aspect of Dad's work is not very well known. There was also an "Image" website that carried info on the Spitfire but this website may have been discontinued. However, try Google using  www.imageseek.com/5.7mm  When I last checked, it still had several technical comments but no longer any photos. 

We sometimes refer people to an experienced gunsmith (below) for work on their 30M1 Carbines when they are converting to 5.7 mm Johnson or want their IAI carbines checked for quality. Be advised that when modifying an existing .30 cal M1 Carbine by removing the .30 cal barrel, the feed ramp in the receiver will probably need to be modified to allow for the smaller 5.7mm bullet. There may be other changes needed as well which should be determined by the gunsmith. We initially used braising material to build up the feed ramps, but again, an experienced gunsmith is your best solution. 

 

Here is a gunsmith some of our members have used in the past:

Contact Name: Richard Hoffman
Title: 145 Sheridan Ave. Longwood, FL 32750
Phone:  *(407) 592-3975*
E-mail: richard@bwefirearms.com

 

In addition to being a gunsmith, Richard used to produce manually operated Gatling Gun replicas in caliber .22 long rifle. As of my last conversation with him in 2013, he specializes in servicing Class 3 material, including UZIs.

 

Commercial Ammuniution, manufactured by Precision Cartridge of Hobart, Indiana, (phone 219 942 2400) was available from Graf and Sons, Mexico, MO at phone # 800 531 2666. The product was listed as 5.7mm Johnson 40gr Sierra SP at a code of PC57J. Price for a 50 round box was around $40.00 The bullet is 40 grain soft point jacketed .224 and you could expect muzzle velocities over 2600 FPS. Accuracy would be expected as 5 shots bench rest group in under 4" at 100 yards in a properly tuned 5.7mm Carbine.

 

In my last communication with Graf & Sons in 2013, .30 M1 Carbine Brass was not available for forming into the 5.7 configuration. You would need to contact them directly for an update.

Loading dies should (hopefully) still be available from RCBS. Reamers would be from Clymer.

WARNING:  As mentioned above, the most recent 5.7 manufacturer was I A I in Texas. Some of their barrels are still floating around. I believe they are . 224 but I strongly suggest measuring ANY rifle bore as well as ANY bullets, regardless of manufacture, to avoid trying to fire too large a bullet through too small a barrel. We had problems with this back in the '60's and heard of problems with other manufacturers as well. This would also apply to any Johnson products with "Johnson Guns" or "Johnson Arms" on top of the receivers. But it could also apply to .30 M1 conversions that still have the original manufacturing nomenclature on top of the receivers.

 

WARNING:  Regardless of any ammunition you may find or now have in your possession, do NOT assume that it will work properly in any 5.7 Spitfire product that you own, even if it appears to have come from "Johnson Guns" in an orange box or "Johnson MMJ 5.7" in a red/white/black box. PLEASE  be sure to measure the outside diameter of the bullet AND the inside diameter of  the barrel before firing the weapon. Go to an experienced gunsmith if in doubt. And of course, wear safety glasses, gloves and ear plugs when shooting.

 

There is a company in Worcester, MA that is manufacturing .30 cal M1 Carbines. As far as we know, they are not producing any of these in 5.7mm Johnson.

Our original cartridge loads back in the '60's were 11.5 grains of #4227 powder with . 2235 40 grain bullet with #6.5 primer. We used RCBS dies to re-form M1 Carbine brass. Accuracy was usually a group of 5 shots within 5" AT 100 yards. Some shooters have done much better.

 

WARNING:  Some hand loaders have experimented with heavier bullets than 40 grains. One concern would involve heavier chamber pressures. I don't personally recommend any variations. 

If you decide you want to become a member of the 5.7 Club, I will simply need your preferred E-mail address, your Name, Town and State. There is no fee. I periodically send out mass E-mails of interest as well as items that are sent to me by other members.

 I hope this info is helpful to you.

Edward Rice Johnson         

 

E-mail:  ERJRice@aol.com      Backup E-mail:   Ed_Johnson@tvcconnect.net