MMJ 5.7 mm Spitfire brass for sale

[Ed Johnson 0]

I have received an E-mail from a gentleman who has MMJ 5.7mm Spitfire brass and ammo for sale. Here is a portion of his note:

"  I have a quantity of 5.7 brass, and loaded ammo.  It came out of an estate of a gentleman who was a shooter, reloader and collector.  There was an IAI 5.7 carbine, and a new barrel, both sold years ago.  I have about two 50bmg-cans full of 5.7 brass and ammo.  I haven't looked in a while so I'll have to open them up for a more accurate count.  "

If anyone is interested in connecting with this gentleman, please private message me on this site or at the following E-mail address:

edwardrjohnson610@gmail.com                       Ed J

[eb in oregon 0]

Mr. Johnson, an email has been sent. I get first dibs if I'm the first.

[Ed Johnson 0]

I believe there is one other person, and i have also pursued this a bit. We'll see what transpires.

 

[eb in oregon 0]

"We'll see what transpires."

 

I reckon so. I've plenty of .30 Carbine cases, the reforming dies, and an annealing machine, but if brass and ammunition is available I'll jump on that.

[eb in oregon 0]

Today I received the loaded ammunition and formed cases I had ordered from the gentleman that Ed Johnson had posted about. I ordered a bunch of both. I want to say that the price being asked was appropriate and considering the crazy times we are currently living in actually a real deal.

The package was very well packed and appropriately cushioned against damage. And while there may be a difference between actual count and weight, I'll not complain either way. The brass appears to all be reformed military, and the loaded ammunition is of three different varieties. There is spire point hollow points, soft nosed spire points, and lead round nosed spire points. While I might first shoot them in my IAI Carbine before trying them in my Johnson Carbine I think I got a good deal. Though the inside of the neck of the brass is a bit more chamfered than I would have done.

[Ed Johnson 0]

To Ed in Oregon....thank you for the photos and info. Thus far, I have measured bullet versus my rifle bore, and have manually chambered & extracted a couple of rounds. No problems. Will test fire when range re-opens with improved weather. Let me know how you make out with shooting if you beat me to it.  ej

[eb in oregon 0]

On 2/8/2021 at 1:46 PM, Ed Johnson said:

To Ed in Oregon....thank you for the photos and info. Thus far, I have measured bullet versus my rifle bore, and have manually chambered & extracted a couple of rounds. No problems. Will test fire when range re-opens with improved weather. Let me know how you make out with shooting if you beat me to it.  ej

Well, I was going to mix them all in a 15 round magazine and just "let fly" at a stump, but my wife had bigger plans in the yard. Regardless I will post any findings. However I feel good this will be fine and I'm fixed for life. However I am "eb".

[eb in oregon 0]

Update:

This morning I spent some time separating the three kinds of bullet style and wiping off each case with a towel. I only got about a third of it as that takes some time and effort. I pulled the bullet from two different styles and weighed the bullet and charge. The cases are (so far) about a 50/50 mix of Remington Peters and LC 52 brass. The cases are all mixed about equally between the three bullet styles, which doesn't bother me, I've mixed my cases for years and unless loading to the absolute maximum it causes no difficulty's. And if the cases weigh the same the point is moot. The majority of the ammunition is the 40 grain lead Round Nose Spire Point measuring .2235, the charge is 12 grains which is supposed to be H110. The Soft Nosed Spire Point also weighs 40 grains and measures .2235 and that charge was also 12 grains, plus or minus a few kernels of powder. While I still want to knock one hollow point apart I'll assume it too is charged with 12 grains of H110 with a 40 grain projectile. The primers appear to be mostly R-P (as far as I know R-P is the only manufacturer that makes gold colored primers) and some other manufacturer. I poured the powder back in the cases, reseated the bullet, and shot them. There were no signs of over pressure examining the fired cases. Loading up an old GI 15 round magazine I was able to hand feed the round nosed bullets in the IAI carbine, it would not feed the hollow points. The Johnson (cycling by hand) had no issues feeding the hollow points. There were no issues chambering in either carbine. So the only thing I need do is find a day to go to the range and run ten of each over the chronograph. 

[Ed Johnson 0]

EB, thank you very much for this info. Much appreciated. Primers would be size #6. ej

[eb in oregon 0]

10 hours ago, Ed Johnson said:

EB, thank you very much for this info. Much appreciated. Primers would be size #6. ej

Thank you Ed, however boxer style small rifle primers are of a standard size. I only mentioned the color as Remington is the only primer manufacturer I've ever seen or used gold in color. However there are sometimes small differences in the material each manufacturer uses for their product. I'd mention that small rifle and small pistol primers are the exact same size. The difference is the thickness of the material used for the cup. Primers considered "hard" are a result of a small difference in a thicker cup material. While small rifle primers can be used in pistols, small pistol primers should never be used in rifles. The differences in pressures is significant and small pistol primers used in 5.7 Johnson or .30 Carbine or any other rifle cartridge that uses small primers will result in pierced primers 100 percent of the time from what I've seen. I'll add that while it is suggested to not mix primers from different manufacturers unless reducing your load and working up again I've never had an issue doing so. But then I never load to maximum on any cartridge. In that event mixing primers from different manufacturers may be an issue.

 

https://www.snipershide.com/shooting/threads/a-primer-on-primers.6936610/

[eb in oregon 0]

While wiping off the ammunition I received Monday I found a cartridge with a split neck. It was one of the cartridges I fired to test functioning. Today I wiped off every single cartridge and inspected the neck of each. I found two with dents. I'll use those for single loading and chronograph testing. I found another six with incipient case neck splits which also will be used for chronograph testing. It'll be a one shot deal with those but I see no issues with firing them, it shouldn't effect velocity to any significant degree. But inspecting a quantity of ammunition is a time consuming process.

I did knock down several of the hollow point cartridges. That was a chore as they are crimped quite firmly. I used the kinetic bullet puller and bashed them quite hard using the anvil of my bench vise. There were five of them that refused to come apart and I was actually afraid if I bashed them harder I might break my puller. The two I did get to come apart took such a hard whack that I'm pretty sure I lost some powder from the impact as the first charge weighed 10 grains and the second 9 grains. And there was powder noticeable on the bench and vise and the collet of the puller itself. Regardless I put them back together and shot them from the IAI Carbine. They both worked and a third that was a bit deformed on the nose from seating which I hadn't knocked down. The projectile appears to be a 40 grain lead hollow point. I find the bullet a wonderment of bullet making as it is very tiny, has a splendid ogive, and a nice crisp hollow point. I also checked the bore after firing those and the other lead bullets and I saw no sign of leading, so it must be a very hard alloy. I have no hesitation to firing it all up.

 

Edit: And after spending more than a half hour cruising the internet I'll have to say those cast 40 grain H.P. bullets appear to be as rare these days as fangs on a chicken. Maybe something to box up and put away.

[Ed Johnson 0]

Interesting. Thank you again.  ej

[eb in oregon 0]

The thought occurs to me that the lead looking bullets simply cannot be cast lead. Either the RN Semi-spitzer or the HP bullet. There are no lubrication grooves nor gas checks. And the velocities are greater than most lead alloy's can produce without leading. Yet they look like lead and polish with a towel like lead. But my gut says they are something else. Now I've got to knock another two apart and look at those bullets with a glass and try to figure out what they really are. But I'm surely wondering who made them.

[eb in oregon 0]

Yesterday I took the IAI Carbine to the range to shoot with a friend. I didn't take the chronograph as I just wasn't in the mood to screw with it. But I did mess up and grabbed a box of the hollow point cartridges rather than the round nosed cartridges. So I had to single load each one as the IAI refuses to feed those bullets.

They worked swell. I examined a bunch of the fired cases and there wasn't any indication of over pressure on any. I did have a few split necks but that really isn't unusual for a reformed case that wasn't annealed before forming. Or a bottle necked case reloaded several times without annealing. Their accuracy was every bit as good as the original .30 Carbine cartridge, maybe actually a little better. I did have one dud that I tried twice. I can't crab, I've had the occasional dud from my own reloaded ammo, and the occasional factory cartridge too.

And the gentleman that I bought them from is a fine human being. In the process of wiping each cartridge with a towel and separating them, and putting them in labeled boxes, I counted them. I had bought 1,000 loaded cartridges. I was 86 short. And Frank has just sent me another 100. I appreciate a man of his word and one that goes the extra distance to amend a mistake.

And this exercise has demonstrated to me that a charge of 12 grains of H110 is a pretty fine charge with a 40 grain bullet. I've lots of H110 as it is the "go to" powder for the .30 Carbine and many pistol cartridges.