JSAR 7mm barrel for sale

[camstuff 0]

Just found this.  Not enough details shown in the pictures to verify if it’s an original or replacement. 
 

https://www.gunbroker.com/item/926103003

[douglas.hughes 0]

Am I correct in thinking that the 7mm's were all brought back to the U.S. by Navy Arms? If legitimate should this barrel have the Navy Arms stamp on the bottom of the barrel? If so I can't make it out in the pictures. 

[ArtR 0]

While on most guns, as the barrel is not readily removable, marking the barrel would make sense. Doing so on a JSAR would seem strange as that is an easily replaced  part. I would think putting an import mark on the frame would have made more sense.

This barrel does seem to be a correct CHILEAN stepped barrel, but I cannot say for sure without seeing other barrel marks clearly. I have looked but do not find any reference as to finish on original CHILEAN 7mm barrels, be they blue, black, or parkerized. Please feel free to correct this.

[douglas.hughes 0]

I messaged the seller on the site and their reply was that the barrel does not have the Navy Arms stamp. My Chilean rifle (I had it checked here for original numbers) has the Navy Arms stamp on bottom of barrel and it's my understanding that all of them reimported by Navy Arms has this same stamp. I think approximately 900 rifles were made for Chile and Navy Arms brought almost all of them back into the U.S. in the late 1970's or early 1980's. Below is the link to the thread about my rifle and Dr. Alpert posted some Navy Arms ads from November 1979 listing the Chilean rifles for sale.

http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/index.php?/topic/2215-johnson-rifle-serial-4446/#comment-8772

 

[camstuff 0]

Let’s see if I included this link correctly.  Another 7mm topic. 

[eb in oregon 0]

3 hours ago, douglas.hughes said:

I messaged the seller on the site and their reply was that the barrel does not have the Navy Arms stamp. My Chilean rifle (I had it checked here for original numbers) has the Navy Arms stamp on bottom of barrel and it's my understanding that all of them reimported by Navy Arms has this same stamp. I think approximately 900 rifles were made for Chile and Navy Arms brought almost all of them back into the U.S. in the late 1970's or early 1980's. Below is the link to the thread about my rifle and Dr. Alpert posted some Navy Arms ads from November 1979 listing the Chilean rifles for sale.

http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/index.php?/topic/2215-johnson-rifle-serial-4446/#comment-8772

 

Navy Arms might have stamped the barrel of a complete rifle, I doubt they would stamp spare parts. It's hard to track spare parts.

[ArtR 0]

Hey, Doug

Did you ever get a chance to 'recheck' the SN on the magazine on your CHILEAN rifle? In the original posts, you seemed to have a question if copied correctly.

ArtR

[douglas.hughes 0]

14 hours ago, ArtR said:

Hey, Doug

Did you ever get a chance to 'recheck' the SN on the magazine on your CHILEAN rifle? In the original posts, you seemed to have a question if copied correctly.

ArtR

Yes I did. The ledger showed  Magazine #A1436 and my magazine is A1435. All other parts were correct. I have always wondered if the ledger was in error (gasp!) or if in fact my magazine had been swapped out or mixed up with another. It's odd that it's one digit off but there you have it.

[ArtR 0]

Hey Doug.

The ledger clearly shows a 6 and just having a rifle with all but one number matching is pretty significant.

As 'homo sapiens', eye hand co-ordination, dyslexia, etc. are all involved, and yes, most anything could and might have happened. While we cannot say for certain, it is possible that a 5 and a 6 could have been misread/written into the log.

However, that being said, there were numerous 'log' entries made on 2/3/1942 with the final destination being "Chile". And the magazine SN's ran the no rhyme or reason gambit of both 4 digit and prefix numbers. And from the entries that I read, the person doing the entries had very neat, very precise, and very readable handwriting.

ArtR

 

[douglas.hughes 0]

7 hours ago, ArtR said:

Hey Doug.

The ledger clearly shows a 6 and just having a rifle with all but one number matching is pretty significant.

As 'homo sapiens', eye hand co-ordination, dyslexia, etc. are all involved, and yes, most anything could and might have happened. While we cannot say for certain, it is possible that a 5 and a 6 could have been misread/written into the log.

However, that being said, there were numerous 'log' entries made on 2/3/1942 with the final destination being "Chile". And the magazine SN's ran the no rhyme or reason gambit of both 4 digit and prefix numbers. And from the entries that I read, the person doing the entries had very neat, very precise, and very readable handwriting.

ArtR

 

Thank you for having another look. As you stated we can never know. It's odd to me with the numbers for magazines all over the place how mine got a magazine number one digit off from what's shown in the ledger. It doesn't bother me, just a mystery! Best regards.

 

Doug

[camstuff 0]

1 hour ago, douglas.hughes said:

Thank you for having another look. As you stated we can never know. It's odd to me with the numbers for magazines all over the place how mine got a magazine number one digit off from what's shown in the ledger. It doesn't bother me, just a mystery! Best regards.

 

Doug

Doug, if the number thing starts to eat at you, I’ll take it out of your nightmares.  Ha ha.  What a great find you have. I also have Chilean, it’s in great shape, but I don’t think a single number matches the Johnson log.   

[WHIG 0]

As a long time Krag collector, we have discussed this issue before. We have found many instances in the Springfield Records of apparent, suspected and fairly obvious mistakes. Krag serial numbers are often mis-read with regard, especially, to "3"s and "8"s and "5"s. Even today, with all of our "knowledge", "wisdom" and "experience" people make mistakes with the most mundane things like transposing digits, decimal points, letters, etc.

What might not be known about the Johnson ledger is the chain of documentation from when and where those serial numbers were from the time someone actually examined it, read it to another person, recorded it on a piece of paper and finally got it in the ledger. Each step is a place of potential mistake or transposition.

The record shows a "6". The rifle shows a "5". I would consider it a mistake in the ledger and accept it. Can't change the ledger. Nice to have a "match"!

[ArtR 0]

I would also like to add the following.

In 1973 I began a job  in a manufacturing facility, producing product for the defense/aerospace industry, where I continued to work for 23 years. My earliest jobs were in production. That is, taking parts and assembling them, to make a final product. In this company, an 'in process' traveler followed each order item through the manufacturing process, where parts and lot numbers were recorded on the 'in process' sheet. The 'in process' sheet(s) stayed with the order, from start to finish, and was filed with the order upon shipment, and all were kept for a minimum of 7 years.

Looking back at some of the 'photos' and some 'videos' taken in the JA facility, it appears that some sort of traveler may have been used at JA, as a 'fairly large white tag' can be seen attached to rifles, hanging from the rear sling swivel (JR&MG pp.120-122). It is quite possible that this 'traveler' was used to record part SN's for each rifle, and at the 'end of day' to record the entries into the production logs.

If I am correct, and I believe I have mentioned this to others, it is quite possible that assembly operators were responsible for writing what part SN was installed on each rifle during the assembly process. Whether an assembler installed only one or a few parts, or whether they did full assembly, that is anyone's guess at this time. However, during assembly, the assemblers would have to read the SN from each part and then write that down on some sort of record. Whether or not their handwriting was the best, that again is anyone's guess. Did they use pencil or ink  is another questions. Also, whether or not their hands were clean is another question. Grease/oil could easily create smudges/smears on any paper item, making an entry unclear/unreadable.

But I can attest from my own family's past history, (handwritten records, letters, diaries), I know that penmanship, in years past, was a skill required and learned in school. My parents and grand parents handwriting, even in their late 80's and late 90's, while maybe shaky, was impeccably correct and readable.

So, could a misread and or transposition occur during manufacture/assembly?  In a word, yes.

[Yuccacapt343 0]

Not to beat a dead horse but a had a data entry problem about 15-20 years ago. Upon filing my tax return, I got audited. I was informed my SS # was incorrect. I looked at my returns and I had used the same number I had always used. I went to the local SS office (which was an adventure in itself) and showed them my card. They told me it was probably their fault. I was told that they were  transferring everybody’s SS# from index cards to the computer! Like I said this was only about 15-20 years ago! I can only imagine transferring 300 million numbers from index cards to computer.

My 2 cents….

[matconcrete 0]

I struggle to write down a phone number without transposing a couple digits. And even then I have to verbally translate it.