A JSAR Emerges

[Gifted Grandson 0]

Hello everyone, brand new JSAR owner and new member. Here is the story of how me and my rifle got here...

I went to visit my grandpa last week, and before I came back home, he gifted me his JSAR. His memory is still pretty sharp, and he told me he bought the rifle through the hardware store in Elmore City, OK when he was 11 or 13 years old, sometime in the 1950s. He used the rifle to hunt with, and harvested a his first whitetail with it in Southeast Oklahoma. He also said he took the rifle to Colorado to hunt mule deer. At some point in it's life, my great grandpa and great uncle fired a bunch of tracer rounds through the rifle, and did a poor job of cleaning the barrel, so the bore has some pitting. Grandpa said he hasn't ever loaded or fired it since he got it back from them. 

As far as originality goes, this one has had some alterations. The bottom/toe of the rear stock has been reprofiled, as well as the pistol grip. It also wears a Pachmyer recoil pad.  Judging by photos I've seen of Sporter vs military stocks, I believe this began as a Sporter stock before the alterations, as the military stocks don't appear to have had enough wood to have accommodated the reprofiling. There is also no second hole under the butt pad as I've seen in some photos of military stocks. 

The receiver has had a folding rear sight blade dovetailed in ahead of the original sight, which is present and complete. It also appears that someone took a grinding wheel to the upper rail/channels on both sides, presumably to relieve material in order to clamp scope rings onto the receiver. I'll have to ask grandpa about those things. 

Last night I disassembled the rifle and gave it a good cleaning and new lube. The bolt hold open catch is missing, and the mainspring measures about 11.5" long. If anyone has a spring they can part with I'd certainly appreciate it. I believe Numerich has the bolt catch. 

I've lurked/learned on the forum the last few days, so I know this is the part some of you have been waiting for, here are my serial numbers. I don't expect these to have been seen before, as the rifle has been in the family for 70 years...

Receiver: 8042, Barrel: 4986, Forward Bolt: B8438, Rear Bolt: 9654, Extractor: 5930, Magazine: A1121, Hammer: 7274, Fire Control Block: 9056. 

One thing I noticed on the forward bolt is the bottom is stamped 123 with the numbers oriented in line with the bolt body. Is that significant in any way?

I don't have any pictures of the rifle to upload right now, but I'll add some to this thread later on. 

[WHIG 0]

Well, you have a great story as a new Johnson Model 1941 owner. I am a new owner myself and have learned a ton by reading through posts on this great forum.

The best thing about your rifle is the family history. That makes yours more valuable than anyone else's. Since it has been in your family for 70 years, there is a great treasure you now are entrusted with.

The experts here can give you a listing of the serial numbers for the various parts that originally came with your Johnson from the factory.  That will be nice for you to check out. Too bad the bore of the rifle is bad but that doesn't mean it won't shoot. I have found that pitting isn't, by itself, what makes a barrel shoot poorly. If the rifling is still fairly strong, your bullet should be able to stabilize and shoot well from your rifle. Get it clean and oiled well first. So many of these rifles, like other mil surps, were bought for next to nothing ads surplus rifles for people to sporterize mainly for hunting purposes. Yours seems to be in that category from what you said.

My bolt has the "123" stamped in it the same way yours does. I haven't heard what that might mean other than a factory related stamping. I hope someone here knows more.

If you can take some pictures, please post them here so we all can enjoy your family treasure. The experts here can give you lots of information about this rifle with good pictures.

 

Welcome!

[matconcrete 0]

Congratulations, The best gifts are those with history and family ties, someone will fill you in shortly as to originality of parts. 
Will watch for pictures. Phil

[camstuff 0]

Very nice history, what a great story, and now it’s been handed down to another generation.  Looking forward to some pictures.  Congratulations.  
 

I also have a bolt with the 123, and I don’t think it has any significance as far as collecting or any special meaning behind it. 

[ArtR 0]

Congrats and welcome to the group. You will have a lot of fun here researching, asking questions, and just plain learning.

The following information from the production logs:

Receiver SN 8042, Received From: Cranston Arms, Date Received 3/13/1942, Stock No. 2 Barrel No. 0048F, Hammer Block No. 9771, Hammer No. 5401, Bolt No.  7182, Locking Cam No. 9113, Firing Pin No. A3518,  Extractor No. 8382,  Magazine No. A1121, Disposition Date 3/17/1942, Transferred to J.A. Inc - N.P.C

ArtR

[WHIG 0]

Art, I see where there isn't much matching on this owner's Johnson rifle from your factory production logs. Being new to Johnsons- how often do you find or see a rifle that everything matches? Obviously, you are looking at a fraction of them to begin with having limited logs. Do Johnson rifle collectors consider matching rifles to carry a significantly higher value or just a small amount more?

Since numbers don't match each other, it is certainly a different animal talking about Johnson rifle serial numbers compared to most other mil surp rifles that can be all matching or not. And that certainly affects value for them.

Thanks.

[Gifted Grandson 0]

Thanks Art!

As I mentioned in my post, I'm on the hunt for a mainspring. Has anyone had any luck with finding an approximate replacement from a spring manufacturer? Surely someone out there makes a spring that is serviceable. 

[ArtR 0]

We have only been matching numbers up for  relatively a few short years, considering the gun is now 80+ years old, and we do not have the A & B production logs. Also, it is only recently that some 'accounting' has been tried. The number of rifles that have been seen with more than 2-3 matching part SN's is still quite low compared to total production. 

The JSAR value probably will always be the general rarity of the rifle itself and having a rifle in full military configuration. A sporter is generally considered to be of less value than a full military.

Collectors are an odd lot, and what is important to one is sometimes different than what is important to another. Original JSAR vs aftermarket stocks. Original JSAR vs replacement barrels. The same for sights, and possibly other metal parts.

Having an original full military is also quite hard to prove, and then only in the case of the non-prefix rifles. It is quite possible there are some A & B rifles that are full original military, but without the logs, no proof.

We seldom see rifles with many matching numbers, and when that does occur, does that really increase the value?  Value is determined and  is relevant only  if one can make a case at time of sale. We recently had one rifle that could be all original, except for a possible discrepancy between actual part and log entry (1 digit). Could one argue that was a human error? Yes, but it cannot be proved. However, one could argue that since  8 parts match exactly and 9th part is off by only 1 digit, along with the 5/6 look alike argument, yes, that might work.

 

 

 

[Rarecat 0]

Welcome to your new family!

[WHIG 0]

I cannot attest to the quality of these springs but here are two full length Johnson rifle springs for a fair price. Might be worth the investment to replace yours.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/165150973931?hash=item2673c3dfeb:g:Wl0AAOSwRmhgCffW

Thanks Art for the good summary on valuation. That all seems quite reasonable from all of the information currently known about serialization.

I place a high value on correctness. Originality would be much preferred but often difficult, as you point out, to prove. Krag military configured rifles and carbines are much higher valued than sporterized ones. But, Krags are not as rare, to begin with, as Johnson 1941 rifles are.

[camstuff 0]

2 hours ago, Gifted Grandson said:

Thanks Art!

As I mentioned in my post, I'm on the hunt for a mainspring. Has anyone had any luck with finding an approximate replacement from a spring manufacturer? Surely someone out there makes a spring that is serviceable. 

If by chance you end up looking for other parts , try Numrich, SARCO, and Apex. There is also Liberty Tree Collectors for other gun parts, but I have never seen any JSAR parts on their site. Whig mentioned EBay, I have purchased those and so far they have worked for me, I have no complaints.  Gun Broker has one listed right now if you want to give that a try as well. 

[Gifted Grandson 0]

Turned out to be a good tip camstuff. I'll be installing the new spring in 4-8 business days as they say.