New Member and First Time Johnson Owner

[ARHthe1st 0]

Hi everyone! I won the auction for 4330 yesterday (sale price $3050 plus fees) and am very excited to finally have a Johnson. I did not expect to win, as this is the lowest I've seen a Johnson sell for recently. I primarily collect post war semi autos, but a Johnson 1941 has been my "grail gun" for some time.

4330 seems to be a higher end Winfield Sporter, but funnily has a $20 bb gun scope attached. I hope to reshape the butt stock, repark the blued metal, and install a proper sight and bayonet lug.

 

A few questions for you guys:

1.) Does anyone have any leads on a new rear sight assembly? This rifle has had it removed, I cannot find a replacement. Numrich has the elevation adjustment, but that's it. If anybody has an extra, reproduction or original, they'd be willing to part with, please let me know.

 

2.) Same as above, but for the bayonet lug and pins. It's my understanding that some 1941s did not come with a lug from the factory, so I suppose I could live without this one.

 

3.) Any sources for other coveted parts? New stocks, barrels, etc. I fully expect this may be a "watch ebay religiously" type deal haha.

 

4.) What "common" rifle sling swivel would you say is closest to a Johnson rear sling swivel? From pictures online, it looks like an Enfield rear sling swivel is close.

 

5.) Finally, does anyone have experience with Miltech restorations? It seems they do excellent restorations and advertise Johnson restorations for $2.4k, but I watched what looked to be a restoration sell on GunBroker last week for over $9000. I'd love to hear some opinions on the pros and cons of this option

Thank you and I look forward to talking with everyone. I'll post pictures when I finally do get the rifle! Here are some from the auction until then, and a picture of part of my early cold war collection to show my primary area of interest!

 

[camstuff 0]

Congratulations on your new addition? You will certainly enjoy shooting it.  
 

so I’m going take a guess in your collection.  SKS, VZ52 possible the 7.62x39 version, French MAS 49/56, Argentine & Venezuelan, Lungman, and then possibly a HK 91, not quite sure about that one and the one on the far right. 

[ARHthe1st 0]

Thank you, I'm very eager to get it in. I'm curious about comparing it to other military .30-06 rifles, namely the garand and the FN49.

You were very close! From top to bottom, a Chinese SKS, a 7.62x45 vz52, a Mas 49/56, two French Mas49s (top one version without grenade launcher), a Syrian Mas49, Argentine and Luxembourg FN49 (lux has a venezuelan muzzle brake though, nice catch!), an Egyptian Hakim, and an Indian 1A1 Fal, with a 16" legal barreled l2a3 sterling in the corner. I do have an HK91 clone though, I just didn't have it out for the picture.

[camstuff 0]

Yep, that muzzle brake threw me off. All fun rifles! 

[ArtR 0]

Hmmmm....I was just looking again at the 'auction photos' , and I noticed something. Photos #8 & #9 show some disturbing 'screws' being used. Joe Scott may chime in. While ugly, they may not affect operation, however,  they could make disassembly a hassle, and really affect any full military restoration process.

As for questions #2 & #5. To the best of my knowledge, all production Johnson Model 1941's were shipped with bayonet lugs. I am not sure where you got your information. As for the Miltech guns, they are very well done, but I do not believe that they 'add value' to an un-touched original. Yes, you may pay for them to do a restoration, but even they may have limitations. As for what you see on GunBroker and other auction houses, final sales are just an indication of what that buyer is willing to pay. Not really the true value for possible resale.

There are 3 considerably 'high priced' JSAR's sitting for weeks on GunBroker without a single bid.

[Rarecat 0]

Congrats, I bid on that one too.  Here are a few thoughts for you....  Disassemble and examine the rifle and parts.  I agree with Art, the screws where the takedown pins should be does raise some concern, please examine closely.  In addition, the scope mounting holes should be closely examined.  Get a copy of the schematics from Numrich and start building your parts want list. Once you have an idea of the total scope of work and parts, then decide if restoration makes sense.  You'll likely find most of the attainable parts, but the stock is always the toughest

As for the Miltech guys, I called them a few years ago, they were quite knowledgeable.  I recently did a search for reviews on them and found quite a few disturbing posts.  Take a look at the Better Business Bureau as an example.   If you live close, go visit.

Let me know when you have your parts list together and I'll point you in the right direction

[WHIG 0]

For the price you paid for this rifle, you have a lot of wiggle room for restoration without getting too costly. We always hope to see a better rifle down the road eventually. Nice project to undertake. I have wanted a JSAR for about 15 years and decided to search until I found a true military configuration, original, at a great price before buying. I had enough "projects" to work on without adding another! So, I joined the club about a year ago and am glad and proud to own my JSAR. I really enjoyed disassembling, cleaning and reassembling my rifle after I got it. Always a fun and great learning experience! Thanks a ton to the friendly and helpful experts on this forum.

 

Welcome and good luck!

[ARHthe1st 0]

Thanks everyone for the advice. You are right, this might be a long term project for me that takes a while to get the requisite parts. It'll never be totally "original", but I would like to get it close to military configuration. I'll have to take a close look at it once I get it in hand, and see if the screws are indicative of other corners being cut on the maintenance of it. Happy to join the club, and I hope to keep this rifle for a very long time. 

 

Ps- Rarecat, your rifle is beautiful! And I also enjoy the process of disassembling and cleaning out an old firearm quite a bit!

[EXCELSIOR03 0]

I have had a Miltech JSAR for about 15 years.  I have put over 5,000 rounds through it and it functions flawlessly.  The cosmetics are perfect.  If you want a rifle that looks absolutely new from the factory and is safe to put a lot of rounds through, Miltech is a good option.  I also have an unrestored JSAR that is in very good condition.  I bought the Miltech because I enjoyed shooting the original so much that I wanted to be able to shoot it a lot but I did not want to put that many rounds through it and wear it out.  

The only negative I know of with Miltech is they are slow.  You will probably have to wait 12 to 18 months to get the work done.

[maconners 0]

Brian Alpert on this forum wrote an article on the relative values of original, Miltech, and restored Winfield sporter '41 Johnson rifles.

http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/index.php?/topic/2502-johnson-1941-sporterized/#comment-10086

Brian's post is in the middle of the above thread

 

[cvgresch 0]

On 12/27/2022 at 0:21 PM, ARHthe1st said:

Mas 49/56, two French Mas49s (top one version without grenade launcher), a Syrian Mas49

ARHthe1st, sorry to be off topic, but do you have any luck finding 7.5 French ammo? I was interested in a MAS 44 or 49 but the realization that it was quite difficult to find ammo and even reloading supplies deterred me. 

[eb in oregon 0]

8 hours ago, cvgresch said:

ARHthe1st, sorry to be off topic, but do you have any luck finding 7.5 French ammo? I was interested in a MAS 44 or 49 but the realization that it was quite difficult to find ammo and even reloading supplies deterred me. 

I once had a MAS 49/56, with all the accessories (used but not beat), and a mint condition MAS 36. I sold them as I didn't want to gear up for another caliber. I think 25 is good enough and finding boxer primed 7.5 French is an expensive proposition. However both are mighty fine rifles.