Correct and non damaging ammunition

[kennethg 0]

Some posters on another thread that I posted here recently had commented on firing commercial ammunition in the JSAR. It was not a good thing to do because of the pressure being to high and the primers being to soft for the JSAR as well as the Gerand.

I don’t recall when I was made aware of not using commercial ammunition in the Garand although I have never done that anyway.

Art mentioned the REM-UMC headstamp (this was changed to R-P about 1960) on my reloaded case and made me think of something that I had not given much thought to in a long time.

Sometime in the early to mid, 1950’s, my father got the 15”x18”x9.5” metal container that is shown in this post. It contained and still has most of the once fired 30-06 cases. About 75% are the REM-UMC and the remaining are military cases. These were all fired from M1 Garands.

They came from a USMC rifle range on a USN shipyard where my father worked.  The marines were stationed there and served as sentries.

 I was fortunate enough to shoot on that range sometime in the 1970’s before the base was closed.

 

Obliviously, the marines were using commercial ammunition then and thought it was ok as maybe it was then.

I seem to remember that the problem is the newer powder(s) being used, with different burning rates and curves than what was used back then.

 

Does anybody have any idea when commercial ammunition was deemed to be damaging to Garand's and JSAR’s?

 

Ken

 

[eb in oregon 0]

I'm no ballistician, however in my opinion it isn't so much the commercial ammunition as bullet weight. The M1 Garand and the JSAR were designed to use M2 Ball which had a 150 grain bullet at about 2,800 fps. They don't generally don't like bullets much over that weight unless properly tuned. Though heavier bullets can be used, those are usually carefully hand crafted but the 175 is about as heavy as anyone should ever go. Then there are the soft commercial primers. However I've reloaded and shot a whole bunch of ammo (loaded to M2 Ball specs) using Federal, CCI, Remington, and Winchester large rifle primers in three M1 Garand's and my JSAR. I've never had an issue.

[ArtR 0]

Following WWI and WWII, when surplus rifles were distributed and sold, the venerable .30-06 became a very popular cartridge. Early on, there was tons of military ammo that was also available, most often from the NRA. Both M1 and M2 ball were available. As many of those surplus rifles were 1903 variants and 1917's, either of these cartridge loads would work well in the bolt guns. When the M1 rifle was released for distribution, there was still tons of ammo available. As is well known, civilian purchasers of these rifles often times would  'sporterize' their purchase, making them lighter and more accurate. However, at about the same time, rifle manufacturers were jumping on board, building newer and heavier bolt and some lever action rifles chambered for .30-06. During the same post war period, many of these same military guns were being used by many post war allies as either full military issue or training rifles. Both government arsenals and commercial manufacturers continued to make ammunition for these rifles, both for military and commercial sales. Military headstamps and commercial headstamps were considerably different, allowing the distinction to be easily determined. Military 30-.06 ammo from both US and foreign sources was manufactured for many years, well into the 1970's from many sources. After the 7.62 NATO round was adapted, new military manufacturing all but stopped. One thing that commercial suppliers also knew, shooters and hunters were becoming more demanding, looking for heavier bullets. The .30-06 could be loaded with 100-110gr up  to 220 gr bullets. And these same shooters were demanding higher velocities as well. The results were astounding as sales proved the cartridge was very popular. However, it was also found, the hard way, that some of these newer, heavier, faster  loads were not kind to the M1 rifle, which was designed  and built for the M2 cartridge. While some shooters got away with it, many others suffered bent op-rods from the punishment these newer and heavier loads created. M1 shooters began searching out sources, both NRA and others, to get ammo designed for the M1. We saw ammo being imported from all over, including Korea, Greece, and elsewhere. But today we are now finding those sources are all but dried up. The days of finding 188 rd cans of M2 ball packed in enbloc clips&bandoliers for $30 is history! The same with finding "Surplus .30-06 Powder", 4x8# jugs, for $150 or 1000 M2 Ball bullet pulls for $50 or a large can with 2000 ea New LC NM  brass for $240!

[Dutch2 0]

That's just one of the reasons I only use hand loads in all my vintage guns, hand guns as well as long guns, especially anything semi auto, and it a lot of fun being able to tune the load to your gun.

 

[metrotps 0]

Please correct me if I am wrong on this but I have found as long as a 150 grain bullet is used with a medium burning rate powder, in a M1941 Johnson, you are good to go. However in a M1 Garand with an original gas plug, you must stick with a flat base 150 grain bullet, and a powder that duplicates the burning rate of the M2 Ball, for best accuracy. Such a powder is IMR 4895. If you get an adjustable gas plug then you can play with different burning rate powders. Or like in the past... my friends and I experimented with different surplus powders before adjustable gas plugs were commonly available, which makes feeding a Garand much easier now. IMHO

Edited June 24, 2023 by metrotps