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I was thumbing through my 1964 Gun Digest yesterday and found a one page (page 166) article on the 5.7 Spitfire. One photo of Mr. Johnson holding the military version and another photo of with the folding metal wire stock If you have this year Gun Digest, get it out and take a look.
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"A" series sporter (A64?2)on GunBroker...photos are very blurry If someone buys, queries, or gets better photo, let me know
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Nice find Rarecat! I don’t think I’ve ever seen one.
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Hope everyone enjoyed their freedom, family and things that go boom!
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SN 5997 seen on GunsInternational - BUYER BEWARE...buy the gun, not the story. Lots of decent photos (25), so... ...while it is listed as 5667, photo #12 shows that it is clearly 5997. Some other anomalies...says it has a 24" barrel, with some sort of explanation. Also, trying to pass off as one of the 'Marine' rifles, but 4 digit logs show this rifle as being one originally sent to Chile...possibly why the barrel has been changed(replacement of the original 7mm?).
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Thanks Art, Happy 4th to all as well, I took your advice and only ventured 3 miles , cookout with kids and grandkids and great grandkids.
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Happy 4th to all !!!!!
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Happy Birthday, USA! 249 years young! I wish one and all a Very Happy and Safe July 4th! Where ever you are, enjoy the fireworks. If you are among the millions who ventured out onto the highways, I implore you to slow down, watch out for the other guy, and have a safe ride home. Remember! Most accidents occur during the last 10-15 miles of the trip....tired drivers/eyes/etc. If you are like us, staying safely put at home, enjoying a nice back yard BBQ, 'bonne chance' and enjoy. ArtR
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I found this manual listed on Ebay and decided to pull the trigger. I've never seen one like it and looking in Mr. Canfield's book provided no insights. I own both original and reproduction manuals and examining the details made me confident this is legitimate. It's a "First Edition" and my other orange cover LMG manual is "Second Edition". The bindings, printing and age match the 2nd edition. In addition, it has a name inscribed in the from cover (see pic). I'm researching Horace and all I have found so far is that someone by that name died in Rhode Island in 1961. Maybe Horace was an employee of JA. Anyway, here are some pictures for your review, any insights are welcome....
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Welcome to a great forum! When I got my military Model 1941 Johnson rifle, I couldn't wait to totally disassemble it, clean it well and reassemble the beast! I had wanted a nice Johnson rifle for over 20 years. Finally found a great example which shoots wonderfully. Mine did need a new mainspring. Everything else was in excellent condition. Hope you get a chance to shoot your new treasure soon. Keep us informed.
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CWO4USCGRET: Not a problem. A service we provide to all forum members who have non-prefix SN rifles. If you get a chance and do disassemble rifle and check part SN's, feel free to report back with the results. It is always interesting to hear what you have. While some rifles only have maybe one part other than the receiver that match, we have had a few that have had 5 or more and a very few that all parts match. Also, depending upon how much 'damage' has been done making your rifle a sporter, some here have been fairly successful restoring their rifles to near or full military condition. Many parts are often available, but some are rare and pricey. Stocks are few and far between, unless you can find an after market replacement. There are still a few that might be around and rumor is someone was trying to make new ones. Front and rear sights can be found, however, bayonet lugs are rare, and if a barrel can be found, it is probably a wall hanger, but a few shootable barrels still do exist. I know that Garand barrels have been modified for use as a replacement, and those are often in very good condition. Good luck and best wishes. ArtR
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Hi CWO4USCGRET and welcome to the Johnson Automatics web site and forums. Whether you are a newbie or Johnson fanatic, you are now a member the best forum about the Johnson Model of 1941. Here you will have access to both current and past forum discussions about the rifle in general, owning, collecting, parts, repairs, maintenance, auctions, etc.,, etc.! Browse, search, read, enjoy. Do not be afraid to speak up. The only dumb question is the one not asked. You will find members on this site are very civil, and the knowledge base is extensive. Regarding rifle SN 5089, the following information is provided from the production logs: [That is: this rifle left the factory with parts marked with the above SN's. While a few rifles today still have the original parts, odds are most parts will not match.] Receiver SN 5089, Received From: Cranston Arms, Date Received N/A, Stock No. 2, Barrel No. 4073E, Hammer Block No. 6552, Hammer No. 8654, Bolt No. 8213, Locking Cam No. 6729, Firing Pin No. 5570, Extractor No. 5231, Magazine No. A2931, Disposition Date 2/24/1942, Transferred to J.A. Inc - N.P.C Without proper and reliable provenance, be very careful about claims of both ownership and usage. Also, if you would like forum members to comment about the condition of your rifle, please post high definition, quality photos showing all rifle views, and any suspected defects. Generally, photos taken with cell phones or quality cameras produce large files. If you crop the photos to the rifle in general, and scale the photos so the size is less than 2MB, uploading should work well, and the resulting photos will give reviewers enough detail to comment. As is stated at the bottom of the 'reply screen', just either drag files to the 'paperclip icon' or use the 'choose files..." option, which allows your to navigate to where you photos saved. Once there, select all that you want to attach, and then press okay or open. Once again, welcome. ArtR
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Thanks for the add to the forums. Tim, aka CWO4USCGRET. Retired after 30 years (in 2001) active military service (4 years Navy and then 26 years Coast Guard. A glutton for punishment I then spent 3 years in civvy street and 10-1/2 years with Customs/CBP retiring in 2014 after a heart attack. When I asked the cardiologist when could I retire he said: “Never.” So then watch word is retired! I collect and shoot guns, buy/sell/trade custom knives; I attend gun shows trying to reduce my collection but still will grab a gun that catches my eye. This past weekend I had a rabble at a local gun show and said goodbye to 16 of my guns but welcomed 2 new ones too! One is a B&T GHM 9mm pistol with a tail hook pistol brace and the 1941 Johnson Rifle that brought me here to join the forums. The rifle, serial number 5089, is what I’ve found in a small foray into the web for info, appears to be like other 1941s that have been sporterized, rubber butt pad, receiver top ground down then drilled and tapped for a scope mount, no rear sight, commercial front sight - haven’t broken it down yet so I don’t know the what may have been done. I’ll post some detailed pictures later; thanks for the add.
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SN B6730 seen on Proxibid.com (Carol Watson's Orange Coast Auctions). A truly mistakable claim in description.
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CWO4USCGRET joined the community
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Ottermobile joined the community
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In my experience M1 Carbine brass can be reformed without annealing. However there will be losses from split necks either reforming or shooting once. As I have plenty of brass I need not reform anymore, however in the future I will not reload it without annealing first. I need to make an insert for that small size of case for the machine before I can do that. I find 12.5 of H110 with any 40 grain load good but it will never be a target load.
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Ammunition Report I started with 250 rounds of commercial ammo produced by C Squared Munitions Corp (now out of business) and 250 rounds manufactured by Precision Ammunition. Both are listed as 5.7 mm for the Johnson Spitfire. Standard disclaimer - I don’t know how old this ammo is or how it was stored. Use at your own risk. Your results may vary. For this trial, I fired both of my newly acquired Spitfires. One is an Inland conversion of unknown manufacture that has a 5 groove 18 1/4” barrel while the other is a MMJ Arms with a six groove 18” barrel. I did a cast of both chambers and found the Inland to be a little larger than the MMJ. E.g. the head diameter on the Inland was .001 wider than the MMJ while the shoulder on the Inland was a whopping .005 wider than the MMJ. The throat of the chambers both measured the same. The C Squared box says it used new military brass. I pulled several bullets (or in some cases they fell out) and can verify that the brass was bright and shiny on the inside - not bad for brass produced in the forties and fifties. About 10% of the 250 rounds was split in the neck while one round was split all of the way to the middle of the case. I did insert rounds into the Inland rifle by hand and fired a few of the neck split cases. When I retrieved the brass, the splits had extended into the body of the case - and when cleaning the rifle I found that a lot of gas had exited through the magazine opening. The brass had headstamps from three different arsenals but was mostly of Lake City WWII manufacture. The primers were primarily brass colored but about 30 were silver indicating different lots. The ammo was loaded with 40 gr bullets with a fairly sharp ogive and small lead point. I believe them to be Speer Varmint Soft Point .224 bullet although a .223 is specified. This ammo contained 14.7 grains of a very small ball powder, type unknown. Wall thickness measured .016 at the neck. The loaded dimensions of this ammo was below the dimensions shown in what I believe to be the “Cartridges of the World” publication. I had a hard time determining what size these bullets were because of the way they were loaded. It appeared the bullets were inserted into the brass and then the entire neck was crimped around it. In the worst case, I found a bullet that was squeezed down to a .217 base with a .225 middle. The butt on this bullet was no longer flat but rounded instead. This problem was inconsistent with a lot of the bullets measuring at .220. There was practically no neck tension on this cartridge. I was able to pull enough bullets that were not injured to satisfy myself that this is indeed a .224 bullet. The Precision Ammunition was all loaded in new Remington-Peters brass of unknown manufacture date. The bullets appear to be the Sierra 40 grain Hornet Varminter soft point which were called out as a Sierra PSP on the Precision Ammunition box. When I pulled several of the bullets, they measured .223 consistently and the cases were bright and shiny. The primers are silver in color of an unknown brand. This ammo contained 13.5 grains of a very small ball powder, type unknown. The powder appeared to be the same as contained in the C Squared ammo. The cases were all R-P stamped with a wall thickness measuring .016 at the neck. The loaded dimensions of this ammo was very close to the dimensions shown in the “Cartridges of the World” publication. During my initial inspection, I found only about 2% to have a split in the neck. This would later prove to be significantly incorrect. Being a softer thinner brass, these cases are good at hiding a split. I reinspected this ammo after problems encountered at the range and found again almost 10% had a split in the neck. These splits are very difficult to see or feel. Even with a magnifying glass I missed two because after my examination I would try to pull the bullets out by hand and only after pulling those two and then rocking the bullet back and forth in the neck did the split show up. Some of the splits did not originate at the top of the neck but rather in the middle of the neck where the base of the bullet rested. I was able to pull by hand over 20 bullets from each brand of commercial ammunition. No bueno in my opinion. Results using a Garmin Xero C1 chrony: AVG FPS SD MAX delta C Squared ammo Inland=2763.6 MMJ =2818.8 Inland=47.4 MMJ =29.9 Inland=120.3 MMJ =46.4 Precision Ammo Inland=2513.3 MMJ =2503.3 Inland=92.7 MMJ =40.9 Inland=206.9 MMJ =89.5 Hand loaded new Win brass-CCI 400 primer w 12.5 gr IMR 4227 MMJ =2626.2 MMJ = 22.7 MMH =41.8 Problems encountered: After firing 15 rounds of the C Squared ammo and 7 rounds of the Precision ammo, the Inland 5.7 malfunctioned with the firing pin barely tapping the primer. I suspect an overpressure occurred because the first round I ejected after the click was an R-P with the bullet pushed back well into the neck which was now showing a split. I believe the previous round did the same thing. When I disassembled the rifle, no obvious defects could be seen but the rifle is now at my gunsmith’s shop. The MMJ functioned flawlessly. Also, none of my hand loads split during construction or after firing. Conclusion: I will not be firing any more of the C Squared ammo. I might ditch the bullets and resize the brass but I have enough 30 cal that I can resize and use that I feel is more trustworthy. I cannot recommend the use of C squared ammo. The Precision ammo is at least the right caliber and seems to shoot better but I still wonder if there are any hidden splits that I might have missed. In the meantime, I’ll be developing my own loads with my RCBS dies and Sierra 40 gr bullets. I've included a pdf version in case this copy/paste gets jumbled. MMJ 5.7 Spitfire.pdf
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That's a beauty. Looks like a keeper. Congratulations.
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So true Art. That kind of patriotism takes me back to when I was a little kid, holding my Dad's hand at the Memorial day parade. Seems too many today are busy with flag burnings and college campus takeovers.
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Hi Guys Thinking of friends and relatives who have given the ultimate gift. Last night, I watched the 66th Running of the Charlotte Coca Cola 600. NASCAR did a great job and Prime did a great job covering the event. From the Invocation Prayer, to a bag pipes rendition of Amazing Grace, to the 21 Gun Salute, to Presenting the Colors. Where else but a NASCAR event do you see about 100,000 people stand and either salute or hold their hands over their hearts during this all, through to the end of the National Anthem. And the A10 flyover! And frequently during the event, there were periodic moments where drivers gave the name, rank, job, and service of approximately 40+ who had given their lives and where honored with their name on the windshield of each car. NASCAR also honored many Gold Star families with passes to the event. And there appeared to be hundreds of military members everywhere. Truly one of the last bastions where you can see true Americans.
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SN B1370 seen on GunBroker
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Nice purchase, I'm positive you will love it. I refuse to even change the aluminum trigger housing for steel. Keep it original. Though I did put an M2 magazine catch on it.
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Blueheeler started following New carbine arrived today
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My new JA carbine came in today. Identical to Gman's in his thread and a few serial numbers away from his. Serial on side of receiver like his. Very nice shape and hope to get it out next week for some shooting after break down and cleaning.
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Congrats!! And welcome to the forum. Nice work on all counts.
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Talking about ammo for your Johnson rifle, I like to remind people to make sure you shoot military ammunition and not commercial ammo in this rifle. Commercial ammo has softer primers that can easily allow slam fires to occur. I made this mistake when I first shot my Johnson rifle. I reload and didn't have enough of the harder military CCI #34 primers and used regular Large Rifle primers. Now, I have a large supply of #34s on hand! Keep us in the loop!