tsmgguy

Thank goodness Winfield didn't grind off the forward swivel mounts on the receivers!

We don't know the proportion of laminated to solid butt stocks, but it sounds like it wouldn't stretch belief at all for any "later" (B series) M1941 to have a solid stock. All we can say today is that a M1941 is more likely to have been produced with a laminated stock, but either can be quite correct. To further cloud the issue, Canfield states that M1941 serial number production was not sequential. A rifle with a B series serial number was not necessarily manufactured later than one with an A series number. It looks like our normal frame of reference as collectors regarding serial numbers doesn't apply with JSARs. So, why am I going to so much trouble to produce an accurate reproduction M1941 butt stock that includes the laminations and lightening/storage cavities? Simple. No one else has done it.

Has anyone noticed other Winfield Sporters with markings like these?

I think Bruce Canfield has probably written the definitive history on these rifles so far, Johnson Rifles and Machine guns; The Story of Melvin Maynard Johnson, Jr., and His Guns. It's a good read and a worthy addition to any book shelf. A few pertainent passages from page 252, "Collector notes": "The chief reason for the laminated wood . . . was that it enabled narrower (2-inch) stock blanks to be used." "Some original Johnson stocks did not have the laminated wood which indicates that thicker wood blanks (3-inch) were used. While "solid" stocks were used on some original Johnson rifles, the laminated stocks are the most commonly encountered variety. Collectors today should realize, however, that most of the reproduction Johnson stocks, including the stocks used by Winfield Arms, do not have the laminated area. There does not appear to be any specific time frame or serial number range for original Johnson rifles that left the factory with the laminated stocks or solid stocks. The use of both varieties seems to have been interspersed during production and was likely a case of using whatever size of stock blanks that were on hand."

Thanks for the clarification! Howard

I occasionally need a spare part. I do not want it to differ from the original specification, nor should it be incomplete or marked as a fake. Those two extra holes under the butt plate were for lightening and for the storage of spare parts. No reproduction M1941 butt stock is complete without them. An original "B" series JSAR will have almost always have the three piece laminated butt stock. It's a PIA to get that little touch right, but well worth it. It was done in the photos above by rough milling the blank and then trimming it until it was a precise 2" in thickness. The laminations were glued in place, and then that portion of the stock was rough milled again. The laminations and inletting came out perfectly. Have decided against trying to secure the original butt stock production drawings. A far better option is to use an original M1941 butt stock that's in excellent unmolested condition for the pattern. That's what we're doing. The next effort is due out this week and I'll post photos of it. It should be very nearly perfect and almost indistinguishable from a new condition original. I will not add the original markings, though this could be very easly done as they're so simple in nature.

I'm thinking probably not as they were proprietary. Just schematics. I figured that you would have these if anyone did!

Thanks much, Ed! I hate to actually pay for these plans, but may have to as I've found a very talented stock maker who's making a JSAR stock for me now. The problem is that while he has an original stock for a pattern, he does not own a M1941 and thus could not see the reasons that the original was made the way it was, including the hollowing out the wood under the recoil spring tube, which is of course done so that the boss on the tube will clear during installation. Anyway, I'm working very closely with him. His first effort (below) had to be rejected only because the otherwise beautiful walnut blank had considerable white wood in it. When we can get it right, I'll post his contact info. This repro will have both the correct visible laminations at the magazine bulges (if desired) as well as the lightening/storage cavities under the butt plate. This repro will not be too "skinny", in other words, it will have the correct exterior dimensions and will not be copied from a reproduction or an example that has been over sanded. Any wood can be used, from a rather plain looking military grade walnut, to whatever fancy grade or wood one might desire. He makes the matching fore stock, as well, also from an original pattern. These will be neither cheap nor inexpensive.

Here's a link to a completed auction that has many good photos of M1941 A5469. http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=10431383 I would have expected the forward barrel bushing to be marked ".30-06" and "41" if original.

Looks mighty fine indeed!

OUTSTANDING G503, Steve! Looks very complete. Gee, I wonder if a M1941 rifle will fit the universal rifle rack? I have not yet tried it.

Pics! We want pics, Steve! BTW, here's my own WWII Jeep, a 1943 MB:

Not criticism, just a suggestion.

Sounds like a "no". A central WTS/WTB location would serve several functions, all of which are now lacking: It would let members know that offering or seeking specific items is allowed, and it would keep such entries from cluttering dedicated boards. It would also make offers and wants easier to find, being all in one place. Rules for conduct could easily be established, say, excluding large outside dealers trolling for business and allowing only hobbists or small scale dedicated manufacturers such as Joe Scott. Included could be a section for feedback so that the occasional bad egg can be quickly identifed. The "fun" is still there; it's just centralized, sanctioned, and better organized.

This is well worth your time: http://www.practicallyshooting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=5705

Maybe just need a WTS/WTB section?

I'll bet that the new wire will take cold blue just fine.

10 minutes. Wow! Nice price, if it's in good shape.

They are a bit addicting!

Winfield tended to buff the metal work before bluing. Many had a high polish finish. JSAR reciever markings were originally roll marked so a tiny bit of metal was displaced during marking. This resulted in alphanumerics with slightly raised edges. If the markings today are smooth it probably means the the gun no longer has its original finish, even if it's presently parked.

Looks like a nice rifle! Unlike some sporters, this one does not look to have had the metal disturbed. The bayonet mount and front sight look original.

Unfortunately, original production records exist only for the rifles that had serial numbers without the letter prefix. Bayonets were not originally produced with serial numbers. Those that bear serial numbers were so marked while in foreign service, generally in South America.

Unlocking starts AFTER the bullet leaves the muzzle. Case opturation has nothing to do with "hard" ejection. That's caused by worn out guns and weak recoil springs. After just a few rounds any residual lube is gone, anyway. Years ago I saw an ad for a "mint" M1941. I thought, 'Yeah, sure' and ordered the gun. Sure enough, it showed up and was indeed in original unissued condition. Recoil is mild, and the gun piles fired cases just a couple of feet away. The action seems to cycle gently, almost as an afterthought. There's none of the violent action that others complain of. The gun certainly doesn't fling cases to the other end of the firing line. That's the difference, I think, between a gun that's functioning as designed and one that isn't.

I'd like to find a nice M1941 stock as well. A repro would do. I have one on the gun now, but it was provided "skinny". Would like one that would finish to the original dimensions and contours, and to which the original butt plate would fit properly.

What do you guys think of this one? I especially like the mint battered butt plate and perfect, untouched buggered screws. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=255598930