1941 johnson help request

[John D. Kopke 0]

Gentlemen;

I am a retired USCG Veteran that has a small military arms collection, to include

one very and questionably pristeen 1941 Johnson Rifle in 30-06 calibre.

this rifle was purchased by me at the Frederic Gun Show a few years ago. At that

time, I knew little about Johnson Rifles, but knew it was a contender for the semi-

auto rifle position of WW-2. The price was high but I bargained for it and purchas-

ed it for several hundred dollars less than the asking price, ironically it had a sling

and I couldent resist giving it to my wife to walk around with which she did dutifully

but was stopped and questioned by every 2nd or 3rd person asking to purchase it,

or wondering what it was, even dealers were interested.

Getting back to the rifle itself a B-2863, could anyone please tell me if they are any records on this rifle (Ive noticed that some records can be found with dates ,

parts serial #'s and disposition records, I would appreciate this very much.

Also the rifle does not make sense to me, in that it is a showpiece in the proper

military configuration, it is a highly polished Blue, I can find no parked parts at all

and all the correct verbage and numbers are in place with no appearance of fade

from polishing, its condition is non -fired except for proof and function, the stock

looks like it just came from the stockroom after oiling, in other words it looks too

good to be real as though it just came out of M. Johnsons office.

I have already checked miltech and they said that it never passed thru their hands

leaving me with pretty much a mistery, some one suggested that it might be a presentation piece, it seems to exceed even that role.

I would be very interested in any opinions the members may have, and would even present the rifle for inspection, within reasonable driving distance of Pasad-

ena MD.

Thanks in advance for any info. or suggestions.

[Bob Lamoreaux 0]

Unfortunately, the only production log (with the parts serial numbers, disposition of rifles, etc) is for the "no-prefix" numbers. It really sounds as though you might have a Winfield JSAR as I have seen one of these in the bright blue and really beautiful stock about five years ago at a gun show down past Chambersburg, PA. Might have been the old Mason-Dixon show.

I'm in Camp Hill, PA and there are a few knowledgable folks in Maryland, should we be able to help or just chat.

Sorry I can't be of more specific info to you.

Bob

[Brian Alpert 0]

I agree. Sounds like you have a Winfield Deluxe Military. Winfield arms sold several varieties of JSARs. They included a standard military....proper military configuration with Parkerized finish, Deluxe Military...same but with high gloss blue finish. standard sporter...sporter stock, no bayonet lug and Parkerized finish, Deluxe Sporter....polished and blued, high end montecarlo stock, ramp front sight and Deluxe scoped sporter...with scope. The Deluxe Militarys are nice looking and have very pretty wood, but in military configuration. I have one which is really nice.

[John D. Kopke 0]

I dont know weather to be elated or dissapointed, I would like to thank both of you

for you'r help, I really appreciate you'r helpiin to solve this mystery thats been na-

gging me for years.

And now for the final question, which I almost hate to ask: What do you think the

value of this weapon is ? Has its Winfield status degraded its worth ?

It appears that this rifle never went anywere , it remained in storage under embargo until it went to Winfield, would be my calculated guess.

All opinions are welcome thank you for you'r help.

john

[Brian Alpert 0]

John, Value is determined based on "correctness" of components and finish or, in the case of an altered rifle, what it would take to "restore" it back to correct military configuration. In your situation, it would only need to have the correct finish applied, a relatively inexpensive undertaking. . One would have to know if the stock was original (they usually are not on the Deluxe Military) and if the bbl is original (they often are on these). If the bbl is original, it is a $3000-3500 rifle; if not $2500-3000. If the stock is also original, add another $300-500). One might get more at auction if you were lucky enough to catch a couple of people who really wanted it and had more money than sense.

[ArtR 0]

Posting some quality pictures might help clear up the discussion as to what you really have and the current condition.

[Bob Lamoreaux 0]

The reference to the JSAR "remaining under embargo" is a misassumption. Apparently a number of "mint" condition JSARs were brought back in to the U.S. by Winfield (or Interarmco -- from some Interarmco records I have been lucky enough to review, I have some doubts as to Cummings' veracity). Not all JSARs went to the Netherlands East Indies (Indonesia), and I suspect that relatively few got there before the Japanese. We know that the Netherlands Navy used JSARs and that Dutch forces in the Americas (Dutch Guiana or Surinam, possibly Aruba) were given JSARs. Since these forces did not, for the most part, engage in combat or combat patrol situations, one would expect that the JSARs were fairly "pristine". Some may never have been issued, given the relatively small numbers of Dutch troops, particularly in the Americas.

I would guess that the Winfield Deluxe Military rifles were in very good condition, perhaps with "finish" problems such as minor rust, dings or cracks in the wood, etc. that required some refinishing. Note that this is pure speculation.

[John D. Kopke 0]

Gentlemen;

Thanks to all of you for the cordial responses, I enjoyed reading them, and In fact

enjoy reading all of the topics addressed on this board and give thanks for all of

the historical information posted here. I wish this information would have been available when I was a youngster, as I read all the gun mags and would salvate

over the Ye Old Hunter and other advertisements. I even remember when Johnson

and Garands were $100.00, and yes you could buy that 20MM and 100 rounds for

about $200.00 , the groundhogs would never be the same.

I assumed that some of the Johnsons remained in the US , perhaps under Embargo

because of the condition of my rifle, there is no evidence of rust or pitting anywere

, the finish is as perfect as it could be, the verbage, numbers, and logo's are deep-

ly struck and the wood is impeciable, the corners are sharp enough to cut yourself.

Therefore to think that this piece traveled overseas and back would also be specul

acative.

It would be interesting to see exactly were the rifle came from , did Winfield keep

any records ?

Thanks Again for the knowledgable responses, mine were purely assumptions.

Best Regards;

john