Early Johnson Found

[metrotps 0]

I am a member on Gunboards forum and this rifle was posted on it by a new member. I have posted an invite for this new Johnson owner to join us here. Here are the pic's posted of the rifle. S/N is 2096 per the post.

[ongaro 0]

I am a member on Gunboards forum and this rifle was posted on it by a new member. I have posted an invite for this new Johnson owner to join us here. Here are the pic's posted of the rifle. S/N is 2096 per the post.

Hi thanks for the invite

im very new to collecting

my dad just gave me this johnson which i have bin looking at in his basement for the last 30 years

he also gave me a mint 37 brazilian any info on the johnson is very much apreciated

thanks

[ArtR 0]

While I am not the gun expert that many others on this forum are, it is evident to me that this rifle stock has had seen some heavy work (sanding,refinishing)

...and while it has a "low" no prefix receiver number, one only has to read "the book" to know that there was not any sequential numbering used during assembly, so a 9xxx rifle could well have been assembled before a 2xxx rifle....

...that being said....any JSAR is better than no JSAR at all...the proverbial "bird in the hand worth two in the bush" applies

[metrotps 0]

While I am not the gun expert that many others on this forum are, it is evident to me that this rifle stock has had seen some heavy work (sanding,refinishing)

...and while it has a "low" no prefix receiver number, one only has to read "the book" to know that there was not any sequential numbering used during assembly, so a 9xxx rifle could well have been assembled before a 2xxx rifle....

...that being said....any JSAR is better than no JSAR at all...the proverbial "bird in the hand worth two in the bush" applies

Looking at the photos of the stock, where it meets the magazine, is it possible it is one of the stocks made from a solid piece of wood? It looks like that to me and that is why I thought it was an early example as mentioned it another topic.

[ongaro 0]

Looking at the photos of the stock, where it meets the magazine, is it possible it is one of the stocks made from a solid piece of wood? It looks like that to me and that is why I thought it was an early example as mentioned it another topic.

not sure what you ment by a one piece stock it is two pieces I probably sound dumb saying that but i dont know if they were made with a stock front to back

as far as solid wood yes it is. not laminet if they were ever made with laminet?

[ArtR 0]

What metrotps is referring to is on the butt stock, near the magazine, many JSAR stocks were made by laminating pieces (or cheeks) to allow for use of standard size stock blanks rather, than using thicker stock blanks, which saved on wood considerably....you can see this in "the book" where it talks about stocks or by maybe having someone post a picture of the two side by side...the cheeks pieces were glued on to make the standard stock wide enough so that when the stock was finished it would blend with the magazine size/dimensions....on this rifle the wood is worked so much that the magazine extends beyond the wood

If you look closely at the photos that were posted, you will notice a lot of heavy cross grain sanding marks which is not only indicative of rework, but detracts from the appearance, but in my estimation the value of the gun

[ArtR 0]

What metrotps is referring to is on the butt stock, near the magazine, many JSAR stocks were made by laminating pieces (or cheeks) to allow for use of standard size stock blanks rather, than using thicker stock blanks, which saved on wood considerably....you can see this in "the book" where it talks about stocks or by maybe having someone post a picture of the two side by side...the cheeks pieces were glued on to make the standard stock wide enough so that when the stock was finished it would blend with the magazine size/dimensions....on this rifle the wood is worked so much that the magazine extends beyond the wood

If you look closely at the photos that were posted, you will notice a lot of heavy cross grain sanding marks which is not only indicative of rework, but detracts from the appearance, but in my estimation the value of the gun

will try and attach a couple of photos for comparison

[metrotps 0]

ongaro This is the book: http://www.brucecanfield.com/johnson-rifles.html

[ongaro 0]

ongaro This is the book: http://www.brucecanfield.com/johnson-rifles.html

Thanks guys

your helping alot

it looks like a solid stock to me which i think is a good thing

on the down side i see what you mean there looks to be a lot of sanding done and a gloss put on

my dad bought it 30 years ago for $50 and its been in the basement gun rack ever since

so even if its not worth that much its still nice to have

like you said

bird in the hand

thanks

[Barry in IN 0]

At $50 thirty years ago, it was a steal. It would have been 50 years ago.

So, yes, that is quite a bird in your hand!

[TomW 0]

ongaro- You might take a look @ ArtR's two side/side photographs. Look just to the left of the loading gate, near the top of the photo of his rifle. Observe the rounded head of a cross pin, with a clip under the head. Now check the photo of your rifle & it appears to be missing. In your 4th photo from the left, it is quite blurry, but the cross pin also appears to be missing, from in front of the magazine & behind the forearm.

If in fact, these pins are missing & the rifle was fired @ some time in the past, it may explain the cracked stock, that you picture, just in front of the trigger guard. In the event the pins are missing, Joseph Scott of this site has them for sale. I would not fire this rifle, until they are replaced, & the stock is stabilized @ the crack. Even though the stock has been sanded & is cracked, it is valuable & original.

It is a good looking rifle that was bought at the right price. How does it pass the bullet test @ the muzzle with a 30-06 bullet?

TomW

[ongaro 0]

ongaro- You might take a look @ ArtR's two side/side photographs. Look just to the left of the loading gate, near the top of the photo of his rifle. Observe the rounded head of a cross pin, with a clip under the head. Now check the photo of your rifle & it appears to be missing. In your 4th photo from the left, it is quite blurry, but the cross pin also appears to be missing, from in front of the magazine & behind the forearm.

If in fact, these pins are missing & the rifle was fired @ some time in the past, it may explain the cracked stock, that you picture, just in front of the trigger guard. In the event the pins are missing, Joseph Scott of this site has them for sale. I would not fire this rifle, until they are replaced, & the stock is stabilized @ the crack. Even though the stock has been sanded & is cracked, it is valuable & original.

It is a good looking rifle that was bought at the right price. How does it pass the bullet test @ the muzzle with a 30-06 bullet?

TomW

not shure what you mean by bullet test /new to this all my other guns have less than 50 rounds through them

please explain

i see that the pins are missing my dad and i have never fired it

obviously the person who had it before took it apart and sanded the crap out of it and dident put the proper finnish on it and dident replace the pins

can i restore the stock whithout it losing any more value?

thanks

[ArtR 0]

Not sure what you mean by "restore the stock" as getting it back to "original" condition is out of the question. Replacing it with an "original stock" is possible, but will be pricey as stocks are few and far between, and if any of the forestock's that I have seen are any indication, they will be in rough shape. There are reproduction stocks available that will make the rifle look nice and like original, but will be new wood. I believe that if you contact Joseph Scott this forum by PM or EMAIL he will respond with what he has available, including the cross pins. Joe can also let you know about the tips and tricks of removing the spring tube in the butt stock, if that is the route you take. Most find it easier to have Joe do the work for them as he seems to be the master gunsmith on this rifle.

As for the "bullet test" he is referring to a crude way of seeing how worn the muzzle is by seeing how deeply an unfired round will go into the muzzle of the rifle barrel. While this shows wear it is not very accurate if you do not know what you are looking for. Some have purchased both chamber and muzzle wear gauges that will give an accurate indication of wear. They are a bit pricey but available at either Brownell's or MidwayUSA. If you are not an avid shooter, i.e., shooting matches looking for extreme accuracy, I do not see this as requirement. Most good gunsmiths will have these gauges and should be able to assist you. If you do not plan to shoot it for other than fun I do not see this as necessary.

For you information, normal rifle shooting will wear the barrel, both in the chamber and throughout the barrel, but not so much as most think. It takes more than 4-5 thousand rounds before most barrels would be considered too worn for match shooting. Most muzzle wear, however, is the result of improper barrel cleaning technique. Use of bare steel gun cleaning rods, uncoated rods, and not using a muzzle guide for the rod account for most muzzle wear. If you want to learn to learn the proper technique for cleaning barrel's, hook up with a Benchrest shooter or a Master or High Master shooter who has a lot of "long range" experience. They will be the ones babying their barrel's and will offer the best advice.

[metrotps 0]

not shure what you mean by bullet test /new to this all my other guns have less than 50 rounds through them

please explain

i see that the pins are missing my dad and i have never fired it

obviously the person who had it before took it apart and sanded the crap out of it and dident put the proper finnish on it and dident replace the pins

can i restore the stock whithout it losing any more value?

thanks

This is a photo of a 7.62x39 AK being tested by using a loaded round inserted into the muzzle to see how far it in it goes. The bullet should not fully enter the muzzle. Note: this test is just a quick test to judge muzzle erosion and is best done with just a bullet, not a loaded round, in the caliber of the weapon. In a 30/06 Johnson you would use a full metal jacketed, .308 diameter bullet of 150 grain weight and of a flat-base/bottom construction. I have always found it is more accurate to test with just the bullet that the rifle was designed to use.

[ongaro 0]

thanks for all the info guys

what i was thinking as far as restoring the stock was simply sanding away the gloss finnish,repairing the crack staining and aplying a finnish oil or whatever the proper finnish was for that gun .I just want it to look the most original as possible without lowering the guns value although looks like whoever did the sanding the first time distroyed the value im guessing.

.I dont think ill shoot it Ive got to manny other guns i like to shoot ( i do alot of hunting ) I will look into getting the pins though i would like it to look as original as possible without spending a ton

[metrotps 0]

thanks for all the info guys

what i was thinking as far as restoring the stock was simply sanding away the gloss finnish,repairing the crack staining and aplying a finnish oil or whatever the proper finnish was for that gun .I just want it to look the most original as possible without lowering the guns value although looks like whoever did the sanding the first time distroyed the value im guessing.

.I dont think ill shoot it Ive got to manny other guns i like to shoot ( i do alot of hunting ) I will look into getting the pins though i would like it to look as original as possible without spending a ton

OK based on your thoughts I would agree on getting the pins and trying to repair the damaged stock as much as possible for now, as it is an heirloom. In the future you may want to get a replacement stock and have the rifle refinished/restored. That said, it would be a good rifle to restore both for the history and the investment. As for our opinions, just remember we are a bunch of old enthusiasts and aren't getting any younger.

[TomW 0]

ongaro

I forgot to mention this in my earlier posting & would like to point it out too you @ this time. You might read the WEBMASTER'S pinned bulletin @ the beginning of the Forum, if you have not already. It is intitled -Serial Numbers What we can share. Since you own a JSAR with NO prefixes, the records are available, to tell you what serial numbered parts, your rifle had installed on it, when it left the factory. And no, they were not the same # as the rifle serial #. When my NO prefix rifle's, serial numbered parts were given to me, it was enjoyable to break it down, to check the #s.

If this interests you- I would start a new posting- give your serial # and ask if someone would provide you with this information. At least three individuals on this forum, have this information, and as their schedules permit, one will respond with the numbers.

As a sidenote- most everyone @ the forum, is always interested in learning, how your numbers match, with the parts on the rifle today. They have been found all the way from a complete match- to all incorrect- to somewhere in-between.

[ongaro 0]

thanks ill try that

[RonJon 0]

thanks for all the info guys

what i was thinking as far as restoring the stock was simply sanding away the gloss finnish,repairing the crack staining and aplying a finnish oil or whatever the proper finnish was for that gun .I just want it to look the most original as possible without lowering the guns value although looks like whoever did the sanding the first time distroyed the value im guessing.

ongaro -

If you don't want to further lower the stock's value then DON'T sand the existing glossy finish off!

It will be MUCH better to strip the finish chemically. If it is shellac, then all you need to strip it is alcohol. If it is varnish, you would use lacquer thinner (use with gloves and outdoors). If it's something else try various strippers on a small out of the way spot.

The point is, it will leave all the remaining wood and you could use some 0000 steel wool for final smoothing which will not remove the wood, but leave it ready for a good alcohol based stain followed by either Tung Oil or Linseed oil (The former is best - it weathers well, and the latter is more historically original, but does not hold up without re-application often).

RonJon