IAI Liberty Armory 5.7 carbine

[Blueheeler 0]

Just picked one up at a local auction. IAI markings with additional marking of Liberty Armory. Info on the web indicates that it was assembled by Larry Horner after IAI went belly up. Anyway, its in absolutely mint shape and possibly unfired. I have redding dies on the way and 200 formed cases so hopefully will get some rounds assembled soon. I plan to start with .223 40 grainers, 4227 powder and go from there.  Any other advice is much appreciated.

[eb in oregon 0]

12 grains of H110 works very well with all 40 gain projectiles in my experience. Standard small rifle primers are adequate.

Pictures please.

http://www.m1carbinesinc.com/carbine_iai2.html

[Blueheeler 0]

A couple of quick snaps, the Liberty marking is below the wood line.

Originally had the type 3 bayo lug, thats a no no in NY.  EB , Do use 223 or 224 diamater bullets in your IAI?

I also picked up 200 fired cases and 20 live reloads which I broke down for the cases. They had a 55 grain bullet and 14 grains of unknown powder. 

 

 

[eb in oregon 0]

I have only used .223 Hornet bullets for my loads. The cartridges I purchased and knocked down to check bullet weight, diameter and powder charge measured .2235. However I'm not going to worry about .0005 difference as it don't take much difference in room temperature to have a .0005 difference.

55 grain bullets are too heavy for 5.7MMJ in my opinion, 50 grains maximum and I think those too heavy. It does just fine with 40 grain bullets or lighter. I've used Hornady's 35 grain "V-Max" and they feed and shoot just fine. So far I've stuck with H110 and am still experimenting with charge weight. Accuracy was acceptable and as good as (if not better) than most .30 Carbines at 25 yards. 100 yards is a crap shoot as I don't see as well as I used to so my shooting probably isn't the best with iron sights.

That's a nice looking carbine, I hope it works well for you.

[eb in oregon 0]

It's good you knocked those purchased cartridges down as I can't think of a single powder suitable for 5.7MMJ that would be healthy to shoot pushing a 55 grain bullet at that charge weight. When I read that you have verified the charge at 14 grains with a 55 grain bullet the hair on my neck stood up. A 5 grain difference in bullet weight can be significant for a bullet of that diameter and case capacity.

Barnes "Cartridges of the World" 5th edition lists:

40 grain bullet 4227 at 14 grains maximum

50 grain bullet 4198 at 14 grains maximum

[matconcrete 0]

Thought you might like to see this.

[Ed Johnson 0]

The above comments by E B In Oregon are accurate. Too heavy a bullet and too hot a load is going to be a problem. Stick with 40 grain bullets. As for substituting the H110 pistol powder instead of the 4227, one of our long-time website users ran some previous tests on ammo using H110 and reported no problems with excess pressure and that it worked well in an 18" barrel.

The above tech sheets by Dad and myself from the 1960's, submitted by material purchased by Matconcrete recently, give a good summary.

The objective is high velocity in the 2800 to 3000 FPS range but staying below or at 36,000 lbs chamber pressure. You can tell if you are going too high on hand loaded ammo by looking at the primers of the expended shells. If they are showing deformity, you are too high.     Ed J

[eb in oregon 0]

On 12/26/2021 at 10:12 PM, Ed Johnson said:

The above comments by E B In Oregon are accurate. Too heavy a bullet and too hot a load is going to be a problem. Stick with 40 grain bullets. As for substituting the H110 pistol powder instead of the 4227, one of our long-time website users ran some previous tests on ammo using H110 and reported no problems with excess pressure and that it worked well in an 18" barrel.

The above tech sheets by Dad and myself from the 1960's, submitted by material purchased by Matconcrete recently, give a good summary.

The objective is high velocity in the 2800 to 3000 FPS range but staying below or at 36,000 lbs chamber pressure. You can tell if you are going too high on hand loaded ammo by looking at the primers of the expended shells. If they are showing deformity, you are too high.     Ed J

While I've been reloading for 45 or so years I don't know anywhere as much as I'd like, but in my experience there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between H110 and 4227. The burn rate of both is virtually identical. H110 is one of the preferred powders for .30 carbine and magnum pistol cartridges and does extremely well in the .22 Hornet. But that's from others and reading as I don't have a .22 Hornet. I'll mention that months back I purchased a quantity of ammunition loaded with three different 40 grain bullets. I knocked several of each down to weigh bullet and charge (I was told it's H110 but without a scientific test I'll take that information at face value) and the bullets all weighed 40 grains (plus or minus a few molecules), measured between .223 and .2235, and the charges were all 12 grains of powder. I've shot about 150 total of all three bullet styles and they shoot, function, and target well enough with no signs of over pressure, flattened primers usually being the first indicator. I did lose several cases due to a split neck but that's not an uncommon thing with reformed and resized cartridge cases. I've had them split during the reforming process. I've fired them in an original "Johnson Spitfire" and an IAI copy and both seem to perform the same, with minor exceptions. I've not found it necessary to use magnum small rifle primers (DO NOT use pistol primers of any kind, I know that for sure. Unless a very mild charge the primers will all be pierced.) as ignition is perfect. But the biggest reason I use the H110 is because of it's versatility in the smaller cartridges and I bought an eight pound bottle several years back and have barely put a dent in it. It has worked swell in anything I loaded it in, .30 Carbine, 5.7MMJ, and .357 and .44 magnum. And let's be reasonable, generally speaking a half grain difference in charge weight won't cause much of a difference unless at the very maximum of charge. And I try to avoid maximum charges for safety's sake. Anyway, that's all I've got.

[Blueheeler 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I as a matter of course would never shoot someone else's mystery handloads . When I saw the 55 grain tip, I figured who ever loaded them  was pushing or had exceeded the envelope. I hope to get some test rounds together this week, but shooting is going to depend on the weather. I made some dummy cartridges and they feed and extract fine. Unfortunately, 223 40 grainers are out of stock everywhere, but I do have a small stash that I use for 22 hornet.

[eb in oregon 0]

If there were a guy that made a light weight left handed 5.7MMJ bolt gun I'd buy it today.

[ArtR 0]

Oooooo....left handed rifles! !!

My buddy keeps asking when he can shoot my left handed M1 and M1A that I keep telling him that I have! Hee hee....

I actually  have shot the M1, M14, and M1A left handed at Camp Perry, and call them my 'left handed M1 and M1A". The M14/M1A is much easier than the M1, but it is doable.

[eb in oregon 0]

1 hour ago, ArtR said:

Oooooo....left handed rifles! !!

My buddy keeps asking when he can shoot my left handed M1 and M1A that I keep telling him that I have! Hee hee....

I actually  have shot the M1, M14, and M1A left handed at Camp Perry, and call them my 'left handed M1 and M1A". The M14/M1A is much easier than the M1, but it is doable.

I've been shooting for about 64 years, my dad taught me to shoot a 1911A1 when I was six. I have it in the safe. I've always shot pistols right handed, but rifles left handed. I've never really had an issue shooting most any right handed rifle left handed, except those with cheek rests. The sole exception was the XM-16E1 (General Motors Hydramatic manufactured) issued to me the second week of October 1970 that would once in a while drop a "hot one" down my shirt. My Drill Sergeant gave me a shell deflector made from a bent stripper clip, a small piece of 1/4 inch plywood, and duct tape. It clipped over the top of the receiver underneath the carry handle. It looked bad but worked just fine. I managed to shoot "Expert" with that rifle and wish I could have it back. I've a left handed Remington M700 BDL in 30-06 that I've very fond of and a Cooper "Jackson Game" in .223 which I'm also very fond of. Both accurate and comfortable.