Very nice bayo and scabbard

[ArtR 0]

Gun Broker has a very nice bayonet and scabbard. This is the first set that I have seen in quite some time that is at least as nice as the set that I have. No bids yet and starting bid is quite high, but I am almost sure that it will be worth it.

[eb in oregon 0]

I have one and scabbard, don't need another.

[ArtR 0]

14 hours ago, eb in oregon said:

I have one and scabbard, don't need another.

Many others also have one, and probably neither want nor need another, but I doubt that there are many anywhere near this condition.

Remember this set that sold at auction for a whopping $1763!

A couple other members have posted photos of what appear to be nearly unissued sets. I know that "greerhw' had a really nice set as well. 

Let's have some fun. Post photos if your original bayonet and scabbard are in like or better condition than the one listed in the original link above.

[WHIG 0]

Art-

I'll be the first at your invite to post my nice Johnson 1941 bayonet and scabbard. I don't think it's unused but it looks pretty nice to me. Hope you agree!

By the way, I think that the original post bayonet at Gun Broker looks too evenly blued throughout. I would guess it has been re-blued from my experience with other firearms. Even the tip is evenly blued. I don't know how these were originally done from the factory. Whereas I like great condition firearms and peripherals, I do appreciate a little wear that shows age, patina and originality. Sometimes they just look too good to be true!

 

 

[ArtR 0]

 

WHIG, your scabbard, while showing honest use, is still in really good condition.  Your bayonet shows honest wear like having been fixed to a rifle.

There are many references to the JSAR bayonet being used as a 'tent peg', because of its unusual shape, and I can almost believe that, as many bayonets show severe wear which could well be from being driven into earth/sand/gravel.

Instead of 'reposting' my bayonet/scabbard photos, I will give a link to a previous post. It was from that post that I knew of the "greerhw" set. I should have noted that "greerhw" also had two other bayo/scabbard sets. While he did not show the bayonets of any, the scabbards were in fine shape. The two 'Dutch' specimens showed the lighter tanning process.  There were also several others that had shown with the 'Chilean' scabbard variant. '"Yuccacapt343" had one fine example in a decent Chilean scabbard. Brian Alpert also had showed his two Chilean scabbards but did not show the full bayonets. "M48TANKER" did show a very nice condition bayonet in a decent Chilean scabbard. 

[WHIG 0]

Thanks. I'm quite satisfied with this one and don't need to keep looking for another with the prices they sell for. If I see one somewhere else for a great price, though, I wouldn't hesitate to pick it up! Great to have gotten one early enough in the game with inflation hitting us from all angles.

[ArtR 0]

6 hours ago, ArtR said:

Instead of 'reposting' my bayonet/scabbard photos, I will give a link to a previous post.

In my Firefox browser,  if I right click on images shown of my bayonet, and click on 'open link in new tab', when I click on the image shown in the new tab, it zooms those images about 100%.

[eb in oregon 0]

I'm thinking the bayonet is reproduction, but the scabbard original. There are no markings on the bayonet. Mine has some. And it was common practice to stamp or otherwise mark such items. I've been watching it, and regardless of previous comment I was thinking about buying it. But if the bayonet is a reproduction I'll hardly pay $695.00 for a scabbard regardless of condition. Granted my scabbard has broken and missing stitching, but that's out of my need range. And there's a little short of 3 1/2 hours until the auction ends.

[MMackey 0]

My Chilean bayonet   hope it qualifies.  Mark

[ArtR 0]

39 minutes ago, MMackey said:

My Chilean bayonet   hope it qualifies.  Mark

Mark: Rest assured. All items qualify! Your Chilean scabbard is in really decent shape, showing only minor dings, and minimal wear. Most of the Chilean scabbards that I have seen are basically similar or a bit better condition. Most have more scuffing on the back, which while you do not show,  seems logical as they would have worn against anything that they rubbed against (clothing, etc).  From what I could see of your bayonet (full size, side view), it too is a very nice example, showing good color, minimal wear, sharp tip, (slight pitting?).  A definite keeper. Thanks for sharing.

[eb in oregon 0]

I take it back. I think both are reproduction. I''m no leather expert, but does not pig skin have pores and cattle skin doesn't? The thread used in the stitching looks suspicious also. However I'm no authority of such an item.

http://www.johnsonautomatics.com/bayoadvice.html

[ArtR 0]

To All Members:

Those who have not read the following pages, I urge you to do so. The first gives a general description of the bayonet, construction, and lack of any factory markings. The second is by Walt Liss, another forum member, and acknowledged 'expert' on bayonets and scabbards.  It describes how to look for and know the difference between original bayonets and scabbards and the 'reproductions'. While I am by no means an expert, what I have noticed is the Dutch scabbards which have been shown, while nearly identical in construction,  are frequently a lighter tan, versus the more common russet colored that we see most often.

[ArtR 0]

This item sold for the minimum bid of $695. IMHO, the buyer got a very good deal. Both the bayonet and scabbard basically match mine in condition. Mine was viewed by Walt Liss at the West Springfield, MA  military gun show back in 2005, and deemed original for both.

While it has not been mentioned here, and I cannot currently locate any previous discussion on the subject, little has been said about the 'dagger' tip/point on the bayonet. Maybe Walt can chime in here. We have seen several photos over the years, where there is obvious 'grinding' on the tip. Were the factory originals ground at all? I know that they were made from forgings, and there are obvious grind marks in and around the barrel ring and where the spring clips are attached.

[eb in oregon 0]

4 hours ago, ArtR said:

This item sold for the minimum bid of $695. IMHO, the buyer got a very good deal. Both the bayonet and scabbard basically match mine in condition. Mine was viewed by Walt Liss at the West Springfield, MA  military gun show back in 2005, and deemed original for both.

While it has not been mentioned here, and I cannot currently locate any previous discussion on the subject, little has been said about the 'dagger' tip/point on the bayonet. Maybe Walt can chime in here. We have seen several photos over the years, where there is obvious 'grinding' on the tip. Were the factory originals ground at all? I know that they were made from forgings, and there are obvious grind marks in and around the barrel ring and where the spring clips are attached.

You did notice that the scabbard's sheath appeared to be made from pig skin and not cow skin? And there is the matter of the scabbard being bigger in diameter than original scabbards. Then the rivets of the retaining strap bear a remarkable resemblance to the reproduction bayonet/scabbard demonstrated in the link posted. And I'm amazed that a virtually mint condition bayonet is still found for sale. Which is not to say they aren't, but in this case I'm not convinced.

[WHIG 0]

I still think that the bayonet is too evenly and completely blued for it to be original. Looks re-blued to a high degree of certainty.

 

But, I'm not a Johnson 1941 Bayonet expert! Just speaking from examining many hundreds of 1911s and other old military firearms that have been re-blued. Certain details stand out loudly. I wish we knew for sure.

[ArtR 0]

For those who may have missed it, 'camstuff' posted (2/2/2020) some very nice hi-def photos of his 6 bayonet collection, including his repro for a side by side comparison match. His "repro" scabbard sticks out like a sore thumb, including the 'very tight' stitching, lack of extra leather where belt loop meets the scabbard throat,  and the larger rivet pins. Unless the leather is really stretched out due to age and use, original scabbards will be just slightly wider ( by leather thickness)  than the actual bayonet blade from throat to finial. On the bayonets, you can also pick out some varied differences in parkerized finish color ( under same camera/lighting conditions). On the repro bayonet you will also notice grind/milling marks along the full side of the 'hilt', marks which are minimal and only appear part way on the original bayonets.