B1204

[Bulldog43 0]

[eb in oregon 0]

Very nice.

[ArtR 0]

Great photos. Thanks for sharing. What condition is the bore like?

[kennethg 0]

Very nice indeed!. I am amazed at some of the "buy it now prices" that are being asked. 

[WHIG 0]

Welcome Bulldog! Thanks for sharing your new treasure. Glad to have you as a club member now!

[eb in oregon 0]

However I'm thinking it is a Miltech restoration. The overall finish is far to good to be original. So what? It's still a great piece.

[ArtR 0]

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

[eb in oregon 0]

Sorry ArtR, but it will take more to convince me than that. In my experience no 82 year old rifle has such a nice finish unless it was kept in a closet most the time. And the bolt appears to have parkerized. I've been told by you and others that's a sure sign of refinishing. And too the screw heads all appear to be perfect. That's also odd on a 82 year old rifle that supposed to be original.

[ArtR 0]

Once again, we may have to agree to disagree. Looking at photos showing the bolt, one  shows SN 4130 clearly on shiny clean steel. The butt plate screw definitely shows abuse, and one of the recoil stop screws may show some sign of wear. The stock shows numerous places where minor 'bruising' has occurred.  I will wait for others to chime in, but over time, we have seen numerous 'closet queen' rifles appear on this site and at auctions where the wood is really at or  near pristine condition, and some with mostly  unbuggered screws. Unfortunately, most older GB listings are no longer available with photos to show conditions at time of post/sale.

There is currently a rifle on GB, SN B8229, that with exception of the minor crack in the wrist, the stock and most screws are really quite nice.

[matconcrete 0]

My first jsar was I believe a miltech, It was too nice , perfect stock, non original bbl, even dark finish over all surfaces including mag. Hard to definitively tell from photos but this one maybe refinished in areas but in my limited opinion not a miltech.

[M48TANKER 0]

Bulldog43,

Beautiful example of a well kept 1941 Johnson. I agree with ArtR's assessment. My Miltech rifle is absolutely "Like New" and perfect in every way, just as Matconcrete described.

I thought that Miltech also offered "customizable" rebuilding. What I mean by that is only replacing unserviceable parts? Now if you just buy an "off the shelf" Miltech offering, it's going to be as near perfect as they can make it. However If a customer sends their personal rifle in to be refurbished, they won't replace the barrel if you don't want them to?

I suppose if they deemed the barrel to be dangerous to shoot, they would want to replace it anyway with the customer's agreement. Maybe I'm mistaken on this and hope someone can enlighten me.

My other "original" rifles, do show very minor handling marks, small dents and dings, etc. However, I hate buggered up screws and if I can't restore them I will replace them with NOS screws.

I do have Johnsons in near battlefield condition and there is not much doubt they have "Been there/Done that."

Perhaps if you acquired a really well kept rifle and then it's a closet queen for 78 of it's 82 years, it would probably look as nice as Bulldog's rifle does?

[eb in oregon 0]

User carelessness is not  an indicator of originality or restoration in my opinion.

[ArtR 0]

For those who might want to look again at B1204, I call their attention to the original GB post, before it is removed, and  suggest they read the seller's "Item Description" in detail, including the seller's additional replies to PM questions. He originally included some very good photos with excellent detail, showing condition of wood, screws, metal, and describes barrel condition.

[tinsoldier 0]

13 minutes ago, ArtR said:

For those who might want to look again at B1204, I call their attention to the original GB post, before it is removed, and  suggest they read the seller's "Item Description" in detail, including the seller's additional replies to PM questions. He originally included some very good photos with excellent detail, showing condition of wood, screws, metal, and describes barrel condition.

It looks like a damn nice example, has enough minor dings and donkers to pass muster with me.  I don't think it's unreasonable to assume original condition, I've seen more than one original carbine or garand that appears to have spent it's life in the rack.  Just my opinion. 

[M48TANKER 0]

On 1/25/2024 at 9:19 AM, eb in oregon said:

User carelessness is not  an indicator of originality or restoration in my opinion.

I think we can all agree with you on that point.

[ArtR 0]

12 hours ago, M48TANKER said:

I think we can all agree with you on that point.

Which brings to mind. How many 'bubbas' are out there looking at their 'bubbafied' guns, realizing how their actions have reduced the potential value of their creations to next to zero?

[M48TANKER 0]

2 hours ago, ArtR said:

Which brings to mind. How many 'bubbas' are out there looking at their 'bubbafied' guns, realizing how their actions have reduced the potential value of their creations to next to zero?

ArtR, that reminds me of a phrase I once heard: "Beauty is in the Eye of the Beer Holder"

[ArtR 0]

And that is so true, sadly, in way too many ways!

[BBBQ 0]

Nice looking rifle!

[Bulldog43 0]

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

On 1/24/2024 at 4:37 PM, eb in oregon said:

Sorry ArtR, but it will take more to convince me than that. In my experience no 82 year old rifle has such a nice finish unless it was kept in a closet most the time. And the bolt appears to have parkerized. I've been told by you and others that's a sure sign of refinishing. And too the screw heads all appear to be perfect. That's also odd on a 82 year old rifle that supposed to be original.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

On 1/21/2024 at 6:22 AM, ArtR said:

Once you have had a chance to disassemble, and clean, you will have to give us a report. Other than the slight blemish around the front cross pin, the stock is in remarkably good condition. The metal also seems quite good. Truly, a nice 

On 1/25/2024 at 3:43 PM, ArtR said:

For those who might want to look again at B1204, I call their attention to the original GB post, before it is removed, and  suggest they read the seller's "Item Description" in detail, including the seller's additional replies to PM questions. He originally included some very good photos with excellent detail, showing condition of wood, screws, metal, and describes barrel condition.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

 

[WHIG 0]

I know from personal experience that having a firearm in hand to inspect, with proper lighting and sometimes magnification, can make a huge difference in determining authenticity or alteration or refinishing. There are some really, really difficult pieces out there that need close up inspection.

 

I think this looks authentic and original until proven otherwise. I'd love to have it at that price. Nice find!

[Bulldog43 0]

11 hours ago, WHIG said:

I know from personal experience that having a firearm in hand to inspect, with proper lighting and sometimes magnification, can make a huge difference in determining authenticity or alteration or refinishing. There are some really, really difficult pieces out there that need close up inspection.

 

I think this looks authentic and original until proven otherwise. I'd love to have it at that price. Nice find!

Thank you- I am lucky to have this gem.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

On 1/24/2024 at 4:37 PM, eb in oregon said:

Sorry ArtR, but it will take more to convince me than that. In my experience no 82 year old rifle has such a nice finish unless it was kept in a closet most the time. And the bolt appears to have parkerized. I've been told by you and others that's a sure sign of refinishing. And too the screw heads all appear to be perfect. That's also odd on a 82 year old rifle that supposed to be original.

On 1/24/2024 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

After having looked at all the 'full size' images, definitely an original stock, with the evident cheek pieces, and the rest with original color, wear & tear, and the buggering by the front cross pin. The metal looks pretty original to me. And, if the owner confirms, after disassembly and inspection, probably an original barrel, with all the proper markings. All Miltech restorations will have replaced barrels with new aftermarket barrels.  There are still plenty of really decent JSAR's out there, which are just beginning to show up  that we have not seen before, probably from aging owner collections, and this I believe is one of them. I know, due to my creeping age, I too at some time am going to have to think about what will have to be done with some of my treasures.

On 1/21/2024 at 6:22 AM, ArtR said:

Once you have had a chance to disassemble, and clean, you will have to give us a report. Other than the slight blemish around the front cross pin, the stock is in remarkably good condition. The metal also seems quite good. Truly, a nice