Surviving Johnsons

[matconcrete 0]

Ed, I believe it was you who mentioned you had been keeping track of jsar sn’s for some time and could only account for about 450,

My question is how many verifiable USMC issue 41’s are in known circulation today? Phil

[matconcrete 0]

I only ask because in 3 or 4 years I have only seen 3 .

[Ed Johnson 0]

The USMC we knew about in 2002 are listed on page 249, table 3, and total about 39 rifles.

[matconcrete 0]

My question is how many are known to exist today ,either in museums or private collections?

[Bruce Canfield 0]

It would be great to confirm how many genuine USMC-issued Johnson rifles are still around but, unfortunately, there's simply no way to know.  I am aware of perhaps a half-dozen but there are almost certainly at least a few more.  Since there's no known extant serial number roster, and since there are no distinguishing features or specific serial number blocks, without some convincing documentation, it is essentially impossible to confirm whether or not an example "on the loose" is the real deal. Since only about 3% of the M1941 Johnson rifle production ended up with the Marines, the odds aren't very good!

[Ed Johnson 0]

And not to belabor the point made above, but I cannot recall ever saying that I knew where there were 450 USMC JSARs. One of our other Website members has been trying to track JSAR's (USMC or otherwise) that have been passed through this site on previous inquiries. I don't believe he ever mentioned 450. In my relatively small travels, I have personally seen JSARs (not necessarily with USMC provenance) in the Smithsonian, Aberdeen (that museum is now shut down, sadly) and Springfield Armory (now a National Historic Site), where I am a member. Obviously, I know some were in the Winchester Museum in the 1950's and most of that collection headed West eventually, to places like the Buffalo Bill Cody Museum.

[matconcrete 0]

My apologies Ed, my memory never was great, now it’s getting worse, but there was a member that had been recording every 41jsar  that had surfaced either by auction or mention of ownership over the past few years. I thought it interesting He had less then 450 on his list at that time. Which is roughly 5% of all produced, and as Bruce mentioned only 3% of those are USMC verifiable, were talking hens teeth for sure. 

 

[eb in oregon 0]

28 minutes ago, matconcrete said:

My apologies Ed, my memory never was great, now it’s getting worse, but there was a member that had been recording every 41jsar  that had surfaced either by auction or mention of ownership over the past few years. I thought it interesting He had less then 450 on his list at that time. Which is roughly 5% of all produced, and as Bruce mentioned only 3% of those are USMC verifiable, were talking hens teeth for sure. 

 

I wonder how many ended up in Cuba because of the "Bay of Pigs." But the predominant factor is "no lists, no numbers". 

[Bruce Canfield 0]

Extremely doubt if any of the former USMC Johnson rifles ended up in Cuba.  Except for a relative handful that were "unofficially removed from the system,"  virtually all of the USMC Johnson rifles were either destroyed in theater or were returned to the Dutch after the 1st Parachute Regiment was disbanded.

[matconcrete 0]

Has anyone ever shopped overseas for these? Or is that even possible? Phil

[eb in oregon 0]

10 hours ago, matconcrete said:

Has anyone ever shopped overseas for these? Or is that even possible? Phil

Without irrefutable documentation that proves it was a JSAR used by the Marines that's sort of a waste of time, don't you think?

[wheelin 0]

Hi guys, considering all the talk and what Ed and Brian said about the serial number of my JSAR; I would seriously consider giving a round trip ticket to Ed or Brian to authenticate the parts they were kind enough to send me. My paralysis precludes my travel abilities and I don't have anyone I trust to disassemble the rifle to verify the parts without possibly messing up or breaking a part. If one of you fine members are willing to visit the Bay Area, let me know. 

PatG

 

[Brian Alpert 0]

Pat,

You already have the "Holy Grail", a listed USMC rifle worth "telephone numbers".  Whether or not the parts march the factory logs is more of interest to the purists on this site.  The value really could not get any higher than it already is.  Before the pandemic, I used to be in the Bay area a few times/year.  Between covid, my health issues and rehabbing a new knee I am not doing much traveling.  If you really want a detailed part by part evaluation (which would make no difference in value) sending it to one of the "authorities" would be a lot cheaper than airfare.

B