New member, new 1941 Johnson

[BBBQ 0]

Hi everyone. Thanks to the moderators for letting me join the group. I’m up in Saskatoon, Canada, just above North Dakota. I recently bought a full military 1941 Johnson in 30-06 at an online auction and I’ve dug into it over the Christmas break. This message board has been a big help already. I’ve now fully disassembled, cleaned, oiled and reassembled the gun. I could use some advice, and maybe a lead on a few small parts.

First off, I was also wondering about the history of this rifle. It is receiver 0600 and I see that records are available for the non-prefix guns, perfect! I’m interested to know if any parts are original matching. The numbers are,

Receiver: 0600

Stock: None that I can see

Barrel and the extension the bolt locks into: both 1731A

Hammer block: 1011

Hammer: 0801

Bolt: 5234

Locking cam: 2813

Firing pin: K7460

Extractor: E5760 

Magazine: 6568

Received from: ???

Date received: ???

Disposition date: ???

Transferred to: ???

Other identifying features include,

-It has the star mark above Cranston Arms (Dutch acceptance mark, right?)

-The numbers 1 3 5 7 9 on the rear sight elevator are filled with red paint (original?)

-The marking WBL 25943 has been electropenciled into the wood under the buttplate, and onto the bottom of the ventilated barrel shroud, between the two screws that hold the forestock on, on both sides. Is this something from a previous owner, or an actual armorers marking?

 

Now the problems, from most to least critical,

The long link between the locking cam and recoil spring is badly bent, so much that the hammer can’t fall. Too hot of a load used, or maybe someone tried to fire the gun while it was really dirty or gummed up? I thought I was screwed when I discovered this, but fortunately Numrich has this part and they ship to Canada. It is attached to the locking cam with a special rivet. Numrich doesn’t have the rivet… does anyone here have one? I’m thinking I can try to tap the rivet off with a hammer and punch, and hopefully reuse it. Any ideas or advice?

 

The buttstock it pretty rough. Bad cracks behind the mag, missing wood from both sides or the mag, and someone did a bad sanding job on it, like they took 100 grit on an orbital sander to it. From what I read here, ebay is the only good option for a buttstock? I’ll make what I have work for now.

 

My recoil spring was only about 10.5” long. I stretched it back to 12”. Is there any source of newly made recoil springs? I guess once I get that bolt link fixed I’ll fire it and maybe everything is fine.

 

The tab on the rear takedown pin is gone, and someone re-installed this pin backwards, with the tapered end sitting below the receiver. What a pain to get that out!! Numrich didn’t have any rear pins but they did have the front take down pin, looks like it could work for now. Does anyone have a spare rear takedown pin?

 

I could also use some screws not currently available from Numrich,

-The two screws that center the recoil lug on the forestock are missing.

-The screw for the center of the buttplate.

 

Thanks very much in advance!

[WHIG 0]

Welcome to the Johnson 1941 forum. You have done a wonderful job describing the work you have done on your new rifle. Congratulations on your tear down and details of what you need. You'll be able to get some of the parts you need from members here and check out ebay, Gun Broker and Numrich for others.Can you post a few more pictures of your rifle? Good luck with your work.

[ArtR 0]

Hi BBBQ and welcome to the forum.

Being from Canada, feel very lucky that you have found a complete JSAR. They seem to be few and far between up your way.

First, in answer to your questions regarding the history.

The following information is provided from the production logs:

Receiver SN 0600, Received From: Cranston Arms, Date Received 10/24/1941, Stock No. none, Barrel No. 0685A, Hammer Block No. 0946, Hammer No. 0965, Bolt No.  1854 Locking Cam No. 1076, Firing Pin No. 1936,  Extractor No. 1721,  Magazine No. 5018, Disposition Date 10/25/1941, Transferred to J.A. Inc - N.P.C

Without proper and reliable provenance, be very careful about any claims of both ownership and usage.

Do not be discouraged that numbers to not align. Most JSAR owners are lucky to have more than one number match the logs.

There was a fairly nice stock set on Gun Broker recently, but it might be a bit pricey. There are also some main springs. Stretching a spring is not a good alternative at all. SARCO is another alternative for parts. As WHIG said, reach out to forum members, and keep scanning ebay and other auction sites. Parts do show up occasionally.

And as WHIG suggested, if you get a chance, post some more photos. We are always interested in what others have, and sometimes problems can be addressed or solutions suggested from what is seen.

ArtR

 

[BBBQ 0]

Thanks very much, I put photos in an album on this site here. I can add more if anyone wants something specific.

Ahahaha not a single serial numbered part is original to the rifle, wow. At least there was only one JSAR factory, unlike the M1917, M1 Garand, M1 Carbine, 1903 Springfield...

I see 2-3 JSARs at auction in Canada every year. Not common but they're out there,

https://www.icollector.com/JOHNSON-AUTOMATICS-MODEL-1941-CALIBER-30-06-SPRG_i46478851

https://www.icollector.com/M1941-Johnson-Semi-Auto-Service-Rifle-30-06-Sprg_i42601183

https://www.icollector.com/JOHNSON-AUTOMATICS-MODEL-1941-SPORTER-CALIBER-30-06-SPRG_i41491807

I will start posting them to the Recent Sightings when they come up.  

Part of the challenge being into guns in Canada is getting parts from the USA. Numrich is a great company as they ship to Canada. For the longest time I assumed Sarco didn't, but now I'm learning that they in fact do. Also thanks for the tip on the new mainspring.

Check out my bent up link attached to the locking cam. The new part is on the way, just not sure the best approach to remove the old one and attach the new one, without having a new rivet.

[ArtR 0]

BBBQ

At  least the "receiver" matches...ha ha

Thanks for the 3 links & heads up. Also thanks for posting photos

ArtR

[BBBQ 0]

So the seller for the mainspring i need doesn't do international shipments. https://www.gunbroker.com/item/966300405 Is anyone here willing to buy it and ship it to me? I can pay you by PayPal upfront. 

[maconners 0]

 Link available  at Gun Parts Corp.

https://www.gunpartscorp.com/products/439320

They ship to Canada.

[BBBQ 0]

Thanks for the tips, the link is in the mail and on its way here, as well as some Acraglass. I will attempt to repair and run with this stock, using that Mark Novak video as a guide. I’ve determined it very very likely to be an original military stock set by cross referencing dimensions, hole locations and depths to what has been posted elsewhere in this message board. The only thing that doesn't agree, is that "original stocks had factory markings on the flat face of the magazine swell". I can't see any marking in that location, however that area has had repairs and the stock has been sanded. I see now that others have made up cheeks and glued those back on… good ideas here. I also see that there are no “front” and “rear” cross pins, there is just the old flattop style and new notched style (B Alpert January 4, 2010 post).

By the way, in reviewing many messages on this message board going back to 2005, it seems you guys really have something good going here. The tone that has been set and the conversations are extremely civil and always helpful. I’m sure you’re all members of other gun message boards, and know how quickly things can turn nasty. You even have annual holiday messages. Its even more remarkable to a JSAR newbie like me, considering what is normal in the JSAR universe: Ridiculous prices paid, tall tales from sellers, whole series of fakes and madeup fantasy models, even what appears to be serial numbers on receivers with obviously wrong font... quite the risks taken by some when there’s big money involved!

Some of you may cry when reading this, and yeah I got some problems to fix, but I paid $2250 US including the auction taxes fees and shipping in December 2022. I was looking at the prices noted in this message board going back to 2005. In 2007, there was a post of a “new record price” of $9500 (B Alpert, Nov 2, 2007). In 2021 the record has gone to $20,700 (flyer338, Dec 7, 2021). $9500 in 2007 in $12600 in 2021 dollars… definitely beating inflation!

I’m in the process of getting “the book” from my library, so I’ll save other questions until I read that.

[ArtR 0]

Hi BBBQ

Well, for the price you paid, seems you can now probably afford to make any and all fixes necessary. The cross pins usually can be found, either at web stores, and sometimes from people that may have spares. I would not worry too much about there not being 'markings' on the stock. If the stock is missing the cheeks, with a little time and effort, you can probably replace those. The hard part is finding the 'recipe' to match the finish. Maybe some time, post a few more photos. Definitely a keeper.

ArtR

[Dutch2 0]

I checked the screws in the fore end, they are common 8/32 threads, so you should be able to source them locally.

[Blueheeler 0]

This looks like a pretty good match for the forend recoil key screws.

 

https://www.mcmaster.com/product/90277A192

[BBBQ 0]

Hey guys, my project is back together again. I put more photos in the album below

My biggest problem was the bent link. I got a new one from Numrich but couldn't track down an original rivet. So I got my gunsmith to make and install one for $75. Also, I didn’t notice it until I put it in the gun, but the tail end of the new link is thicker than the one I had. It needed to be ground down to the original part dimension. After that I clearanced the recoil spring tube so there is enough space when the bolt is all the way back.

The other big to do was the stock repair. I did basically the same repair as described here,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uXrWAR6GgE

I made the pillar from ½”aluminum rod. The gluing was done in steps over a few days. Then 2 coats of boiled linseed oil. 

I was able to get the take down pins and butt plate screw I needed from Sarco. I got some replacement washers and lock washers from McMaster Carr, and thanks to members that gave screw dimensions for the forend recoil key. I have ones that work although originals would be nice to find if anyone has.

I still need to go out an shoot it!

 

[WHIG 0]

What a wonderful job you have done to restore this great rifle back closer to the way it was made! With the ridiculously low price you paid for this last year, you are still way ahead. We all enjoy seeing new JSAR owners but we enjoy more hearing about shooting experiences, when you are able to do so.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience and talents with us. Congrats and welcome again!

[BBBQ 0]

I took the rifle to the range today. It was not operable when I bought it. I had replaced my link with a NOS part, did the Mark Novak-style stock repair, and stretched my mainspring from 10.5" back to 12" (still can't find any sellers willing to ship a mainspring to Canada). So I wasn't sure how this might go. 

I ran genuine surplus LC69 M2 ball ammo, single rounds, then stripper clips... 35 rounds fired from a bench or standing and......... Function is perfect! No issues at all. The bolt catch works on the last round every time. All the repairs have held. Some cases had a slight ejector mark on the case head, some didn't. Accuracy was bad, like 12 inch groups at 50 meters. I was expecting this as its an original barrel, the rifling is very worn, and at the muzzle there's not much left. But hey it actually runs now. Overall I'm relieved and quite pleased! Hopefully this info is helpful to other members.

[Dutch2 0]

Great job !!

Maybe we can get together to the range and shoot each others for comparison, that would be great. 

Easy enough to switch barrels, I'll even let you try my .308 barrel.

[BBBQ 0]

Thanks Dutch2 I would be up for that some day. My barrel appears to fit tight in the receiver. Swapping barrels should reveal where the problem is. 

[BBBQ 0]

Since my barrel is pretty much burnt out, I am slowly collecting parts for a second barrel for accurate shooting. I got a practically new Remington 700 22" 30-06 take off barrel, and an original front sight. Anyone want to sell me a set of the collars?

[ryche_me 0]

I may have a set of both. no bayo lug though.

Will check when i get downstairs and let you know

Ryche

[BBBQ 0]

Sir, that would be awesome, please let me know. I'm in no hurry either. For this project, having the bayonet lug or getting exactly the right barrel taper is not important to me.

And thanks to other members, I'll soon have a nice set of key spare parts including extractor, firing pin, mag door spring. Enough to keep this gun going for a long time.

[ryche_me 0]

Ok I have one center collar and two rears. one of them is not marked.

If you want to PM me your phone number i will text ya some photos

Ryche

also can i send parts like that to Canada?

[BBBQ 0]

Thanks! PM sent. 

To clarify shipping (and keep in mind this just my experience not legal advice!)

For parts shipped from USA to Canada, I can buy/import a small amounts of parts (I think under $500 at a time) with some exceptions, no problem. All that happens is when the package arrives, I pay a small import tax. I have bought/imported all kinds of stuff like firing pins, extractors, magazine parts, triggers, iron sights, springs, screws, stocks, bayonets, for rifles, shotguns and pistols. I just bought some nice JSAR parts from a USA member here, everything declared when shipping no problems. The parts can be sent from an individual or a business.

The things that I know are exceptions are bare receivers, bolts or really the part called the bolt body, barrels, and magazines or really just the main body. For example a JSAR rotary mag shell can't be sent, but the follower and springs is all ok. The barrel parts are ok, just not the tube itself.

Canadians can still get these exception parts, they just have to go a different way. That involves paperwork and more taxes, but there are importers like Aztech Armory that do that all for you for a fee.

 

[BBBQ 0]

Hooo yeah boys... Thanks to ryche_me, I now have a set of collars from the USA. Like I mentioned above, parts were declared on the package for shipping from USA to Canada, Canada border service opened the package, assigned a tax of $40 CDN, away it goes to my door thats it thats all. THANK YOU! Help out those Canadian gun owners in need eh! We are under pressure with the current Liberal government, who earlier this year tried but failed to ban over 1,500 models of firearm, and that list included the JSAR.

My other experiences with re-barreling were buy a barrel, take it and the gun to my gunsmith (AC Douglas Gunsmithing in Saskatoon), and he does it all. This is more involved so I want to get the instructions. Looking through this message board, there are a few stories of doing re-barreling. All the info is on this board I think, but not really in one place in my opinion. Should I break out this project into its own new thread?

[ryche_me 0]

Hey buddy glad it all got there. If Tanker reads this i think he did at least one. Joe Scott should have some good advice as well.

Art have you ever done one of these? or know where he can find the info on the forum files?

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Ryche

[ArtR 0]

BBBQ: Wow! That is a pretty hefty tax on a few pieces of metal.

Ryche-me: No. I would not ever attempt anything like this. I would defer to someone with gunsmithing or metal or both skills for both the work and advice.

 

 

[M48TANKER 0]

5 hours ago, ryche_me said:

Hey buddy glad it all got there. If Tanker reads this i think he did at least one. Joe Scott should have some good advice as well.

Art have you ever done one of these? or know where he can find the info on the forum files?

Looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

Ryche

Hello Ryche and BBBQ

I'm glad to hear that you two got together and got the parts handled. I've now made up four barrels. I used NOS 1903A3 barrels and they worked out well. To begin with you will need access to a lathe and someone who knows how to use it. You'll have to re-cut the threads on the new barrel. There is a step by step procedure for installing the rear locking lug collar onto the barrel. Then you can move on to the installation of the center barrel bushing in proper alignment with the locking lug collar. The bayonet lug and front sight will then be pinned onto their stepped down positions at the muzzle end.

You just need to determine how often you might be doing re-barreling projects. I already had my old South Bend 9in. lathe, a $1500.00 investment 20 years ago. It has paid for itself many times over. I have no idea of what a gunsmith might charge for assembling a replacement 1941 Johnson barrel? If you anticipate doing you own gunsmithing and machining work in the future, you may want to invest in your own equipment. If not, you probably want to farm it out to someone else.

I noticed that you don't seem to have a bayonet lug yet. I would advise you to prepare the new barrel for the bayonet lug when you have the other work done, and then you can add a bayonet lug later. This will just involve reducing the diameter of the barrel for just a bit behind the front sight. It won't look bad for now and would save you a lot of grief later.

You're right, all the dimensions are on the board somewhere.

Joe Scott used to provide replacement barrel assembly at a very reasonable price. He would be your best bet.