New member - New 1941 Johnson Rifle

[cvgresch 0]

Hello All!

I am excited to be here as I have recently acquired a 1941 Johnson Rifle. I reside in Virginia and was able to pick one up off Gunbroker from a store in Arizona. I won't speculate as to how good the price was (or wasn't) but I'm happy to have finally acquired a rifle and piece of history that I have been interested in for some time.

I've included a plethora of pictures (hopefully no one is offended by the amount I took) for folks to peruse as they tend to be more descriptive than my typing skills. A little bit of background that may or may not be evident from the pictures:

Receiver: 3679

Barrel: 3679

Bolt: 3679

Firing Pin: A9836

Locking Cam: 3679

Magazine: 7018

Other than having a surface-level understanding of the rifle's history from reading Bruce Canfield's book and various online articles/forums the following is my initial assessment of the rifle for what it is worth, but I would love to have others educate me and chime in as desired. I believe the barrel may be a conversion of some kind ('03 Springfield perhaps?) as it has a JA marking (not J.A.) and does not have the 30-06 marking below it. I did not get a picture of the barrel band centering lug but it does have the 30-06 marking on the top 12 o'clock position and 41 at the 6 o'clock position. I was not able to locate a Dutch dagger marking but there are a number of other numbers and markings on the barrels as seen in the pictures. The buttstock and forend are in very good condition - I would speculate are well fitting reproductions or at the very least sanded down. The number of matching parts is surprising, not sure if this is pure happenstance as I have read is possible but seems highly irregular given the number of them. I cannot say too much of the fire control group, other than it is in very good condition, as I did not fully take it apart when disassembling. However, I did not see any serial numbers on components from my cursory look. The mainspring assembly was quite dirty but cleaned up well (including the tube) although the spring still likes to make some noise under slower manual cycling. The buttstock only had the 1 cutout for the buffer tube, I was under the impression it should have 2 additional ones for cleaning tools, or is this a fallacy? The heat shield does not appear to have any numbers from what I could see. The magazine is a little bit of a tough nut for me to crack. It easily accepts 8 rounds, but the last 2 are very difficult to get in. On my first attempt I did not bother but on a second I pushed a little harder than I liked and it went in with a metallic pop and the spring went stiff and the rounds just jingled around inside. Dreading the worst I took her apart again and discovered that after pushing the feed lip in again to extract a few of the remaining rounds the ramp sprang back around. Upon investigation it appears that the ramp is hindered on the last bit of its rotation by the leaf spring that provides tension on the feed lip. I have tried to capture this in pictures. Obviously this must be a defect of some kind or I am not proficient in proper loading technique or strength - the latter is most likely. Perhaps this spring has been installed backwards/upside down? I have not tinkered as I figured it best to consult some more knowledgeable folks first. I also discovered that the front locking pin (forward of the magazine) was not present, luckily a quick search on Numrich proved fruitful and I also picked up an extra extractor and ejector just in case since I have heard those are the most wearable components. Lastly, the Cranston Arms logo on the rear of the receiver is missing or (in the right - very obscure - light) it is extremely faint. What can be seen is the Dutch proof star stamp that is also rather light compared to other photos I have seen, which makes me think that the exterior metal was sanded and/or re-parkerized. To that note it does appear that almost ALL of the parts have been parkerized in one fashion or another. 

At the very least I intend to take this to my local gunsmith to confirm it is safe for my 30-06 Garand rounds (I suspect so from my initial looks) and hopefully get a good historic shooter out of this beautiful rifle. Please let me know thoughts/knowledge and potential origins of the rifle from the factory. I'll be happy to provide more details and pictures if needed. 

Thank you all in advance!

-cvgresch

[camstuff 0]

Very nice detailed description and picture documentation!  You will certainly have fun with this. 

[ArtR 0]

Hi cvgresch and welcome to the forum

Congratulations on your acquisition, and thanks also for the many good detailed photos.

The following information is provided from the non-prefix production logs:

Receiver SN 3679, Received From: Cranston Arms, Date Received 12/16/1941, Stock No. none, Barrel No. 2815E, Hammer Block No. 2714, Hammer No. 5757, Bolt No.  4146, Locking Cam No. 3564, Firing Pin No. 1250,  Extractor No. 3550,  Magazine No. 9898, Disposition Date 12/17/1941, Transferred to J.A. Inc - N.P.C

Without proper and reliable provenance, be very careful about any claims of both ownership and usage.

As you can see, and you have probably already guessed, having 'matching part SN's' definitely raises questions. While it could be possible, the production logs for the 10,000 non-prefix SN's definitely does not bear that out. The fact that you have so many 'matching' SN's, just goes to prove that someone was either really diligent about findng parts, or more likely, they were very masterful at remarking parts with SN's. While this may not really affect the overall value, it definitely raises many questions.

Over all it appears that you have a nice looking JSAR, but I will let others evaluate your photos and make comments.

ArtR

[WHIG 0]

I would surmise that it is more likely that numbers were altered or re-stamped than someone actually searching and finding matching numbered parts to reassemble into this nice JSAR. Probability of finding matching numbers seems quite low. It sure would be interesting to know the history of this piece.

 

Great job with the pictures! Welcome to this forum!

[M48TANKER 0]

Hello cvgresch,

Welcome. That's a very clean rifle. No doubt it's been reconditioned by someone. The butt stock is a great looking and great fitting replacement. The rifle looks so good that I'd bet it's been refurbished by Miltech. They do an outstanding job.

Your pictures show that the magazine door spring is installed upside down. The larger section with the small 90 degree lip bent on it, goes toward the top. When it's toward the bottom that bent lip is getting in the way of those last couple of rounds.

When re-installing the magazine, make sure that you get the bolt hold open "tongue" inserted properly into the rear of the magazine. You'll have to push the follower inward to about the position you show it now in your pictures.

I agree that the barrel has also been replaced but it may be possible that the JA  with out punctuation, is indeed a Johnson Automatics produced barrel. Johnson did make barrels for other manufacturers. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I know that Joe Scott will be able to tell you for which firearm the barrel was originally made, based on the "offsets" for the front sight and bayonet lug and this superfluous groove.

I hope that I've got all this info right.

[ArtR 0]

Tanker: Great catch on the Magazine Door Spring. He might have spent hours trying to diagnose his problem.

On 1/9/2023 at 7:44 PM, cvgresch said:

I've included a plethora of pictures (hopefully no one is offended by the amount I took) for folks to peruse as they tend to be more descriptive than my typing skills

cvgresch: If you notice, no one has complained about the number that you took and or submitted. As has been said before, "A picture is worth a thousand words."

And think about it. You had previously included 3 other photos of the magazine, but the one showing clearly the insides is what got tankers attention.

[camstuff 0]

As Uncle Jed Clampet would say… dag.nab.it, iz gots to scroll through all those dang pictures now to check cvgresch numbers and then go back and check Arts numbers.  

[matconcrete 0]

At least you don’t have to do any gazintas

[camstuff 0]

4 hours ago, matconcrete said:

At least you don’t have to do any gazintas

Ha ha, yes, I remember that math and double knot spy. 

[cvgresch 0]

Tanker - thank you! Turning the spring around worked perfectly! Also good call on miltech, I had not considered that before but certainly seems like a good possibility. 

ArtR - thank you for the SN lookup and insight. 

At first I was a bit worried with the SN's and comments but it is good to have some reassuring thoughts and that at the end of the day it is still quite a piece of history and hopefully I will learn from my gunsmith that she checks out and will be good to enjoy from time to time. 

Thanks all!

 

-cvgresch

[ArtR 0]

cvgresch :

I hope that your gunsmith gives a nod to your JSAR and that you do get to take it to the range and enjoy more than just time to time. 

As you say, "at the end of the day it is still quite a piece of history", and, regardless of the numbering, it is still a JSAR and you can be proud to be the owner.

ArtR

[cvgresch 0]

Gunsmith said things checked out and looked almost brand new. 

Ran into a local fellow that inherited 2 JSARs from his grandfather. 

They both agreed and suggested I could always try and blank round to make sure things check out in the line of firing.

Hoping to take it out this weekend and see how I fare. 

-cvgresch

[cvgresch 0]

Largest issue I have at the moment is it seems like there is a carrying amount of adequate tension to push a round far/hard enough to seat it high enough for the bolt to catch it and push it into battery. 

This also sometimes causes the bolt to lock back on the last round. 

Also seems like there might not be enough power for the bolt to push a round forward into battery. Not sure if this is the mainspring or the re-parkerization (or both).

Any ideas thoughts on these items? Thanks in advance!

-cvgresch

[M48TANKER 0]

cvgresch,

Here are my thoughts:

Usually part of the preparation for parkerizing is sand-blasting or some form of abrasive media blasting. Then all the blasted parts should be thoroughly cleaned of all blasting media residue...with emphasis on THROUGHLY!    I rinse very well with a strong flow of water and blow dry with compressed air. The parts should be immediately placed in the parkerizing tank before the bare metal begins to "flash rust"...which can happen in a matter of minutes. Once the parkerizing process is completed, the parts should be throughly rinsed again, blown dry and soaked in oil. Hopefully all of this was done.

To me most of your parts look very clean, but not very oily. I do think your mainspring tube could use some more cleaning inside and polishing, along with the mainspring, follower, and buffer. This might help to increase the amount of forward pressure available to cycle the action and to chamber, then extract a round. Have you measured your mainspring? lt must be at least 12 inches long, NO LESS...and you can't cheat by stretching it just that last 1/4 inch.

What I'm trying to emphasize is that the weapon must be clean and the parts slick as ice in order to function properly. The entire gun should be disassembled including the fire control group, magazine parts, inside the mainspring tube, all bolt parts, and also polish the chamber of the barrel. The goal is to eliminate every last bit of friction that you can. I would like to see the mainspring tube, below, not only clean but shining like a mirror. As well the follower and buffer. Anywhere grit can hide, or mating parts can get sticky with old grease.

If you have access to a "sonic cleaner" you might be able to clean some groups of parts, like the hammer/trigger/disconnector/bolt open lever, aka: "firecontrol group"...without complete disassembly? But I don't have a sonic cleaner yet so I just take it all apart. From what we can see of the magazine, fire control group, etc. the assemblies appear to be clean, but are they SLICK and OILY? What about the "innards" (Jed Clampett) which we can't see? Are the surfaces clean which contact each other, the pins in the fcg, the mainspring tube, the INSIDE of the upper receiver,  the insides of the sear housing where the trigger pivots, the hammer pivots, the sear travels, and the bolt hold open rocks? Rough surfaces and friction are your opponents.

(And yes, really good close up pictures can emphasize even a slight build up of crud. )

                                SHINE ME UP PLEASE...WAAAAH

 

 

[cvgresch 0]

M48TANKER - thanks for the great info!

I will say I did (after taking pictures) clean up the tube and buffer but I will revisit and oil up some more.

I do certainly have suspicions on the spring just from the noises it makes and seemingly inconsistent pressure it provides (but that could be me). 

I will say overall things are not slick and oily so I will take some time to lubricate.

I don't have a sonic cleaner, I do have a tumbler but I think maybe not harsh enough? Although I'm not opposed to using my own elbow grease. 

I'll make some measurements and lubrications and report back next week.

Thanks again!

-cvgresch 

[Rarecat 0]

I'll add that a deep cleaning, replacing the mainspring and running it "wet" got my JSAR's running great.

[camstuff 0]

M48Tanker always has great advice! and with details.  Always like reading your comments. 

[M48TANKER 0]

43 minutes ago, camstuff said:

M48Tanker always has great advice! and with details.  Always like reading your comments. 

Thanks camstuff! It's nice to be appreciated. Plus I'm always open to correction if I leave something out or if I need to be educated. That being said, I was a bit concerned about my description of the parkerizing process. Different folks have different ways. Some people use a "pre-heated" rinse/bath just before dropping parts in the "Park" tank. Some go right from the park tank to the oil bath without a rinse. If you get into parkerizing, study all the info and then make your own decision about what seems best to you. Once a gun has been parkerized, I treat it like it needs an additional through cleaning and a new break-in period. There are as many opinions about lubrication and the right oil to use, as there are folks with the oil can in hand. I don't think you can go wrong with a tried and true light gun oil like Hoppe's or Rem-oil, "CLP" etc. I'm likely to use the military "LSA" on most of my guns.

I really learned my lesson on that amber-tech. (my opinion)

https://outdoorworld.reviews/best-gun-oil/

[cvgresch 0]

Good news: oiled things up and action runs much smoother. 

Bad news: last round still needs some coercion in getting seated a little higher to get picked up. 

The buffer spring is about 1/8th inch short of the 12 inch target. I am looking around for replacements. But perhaps this is not quite as terrible given that the action cycles well with the right lubrication?

Any recommendations on good places to find springs? I have not had too much luck thus far.

-cvgresch

[taharad 0]

I'm on vacation till the end of March.  I will list springs on ebay when I get back.

[ArtR 0]

There are a couple BUY IT NOW main springs on gun broker. There are also other cheaper sources, but both Numrich and Sarco both are currently out.

[M48TANKER 0]

Quoting: Bad news: last round still needs some coercion in getting seated a little higher to get picked up. 

It's possible that your magazine spring is indeed a bit weak. I would remove the magazine from the rifle, fill the magazine, and then watch and listen as each successive round is pushed to the top. Check for any rubbing or scraping of the magazine follower on the parts inside the magazine.

I've never compared the shape of the magazine followers, so I can't say how "straight" they are supposed to be. I'd assume that the follower should closely resemble the shape of the cartridge? That would present the cartridge to the bolt aimed straight at the chamber. (any experience with the "follower" out there?)

Good luck...keep us posted!

[cvgresch 0]

Picked up 2 buffer springs from GB. Both are of about the same length (11 7/8 inches). Doesn't seem that this is part of the problem but worth having extra parts. 

It does not appear that there are any uniformity issues in the magazine housing or spring that I can discern. 

The main items of concern I think I have identified is that there is some rubbing on the magazine gate and the inside of the magazine housing almost at its point of stop. (1st picture)

The other question is if the follower/round is applying pressure on the gate in such a way that it prevents the gate from moving out of the way and letting the round up far enough. (2nd picture) Perhaps due to design? I don't believe this theory hold much water but still an observation as it may be a new reproduction and slightly off. 

I find that sometimes the round comes up short (3rd picture) and I've found that getting a small object (such as a knife) and prying the gate further to the end of it's travel - requires a small amount, maybe 1/16-1/8 inch - is enough to allow the round to "pop" into the right place. (4th picture)

I presume I have a few options: shaving a little bit of material off the gate where it is rubbing the housing. Trying other components. And oiling even more of the magazine assembly (some oil already). 

Any other thoughts/suggestions?

Thanks in advance!

-cvgresch

[M48TANKER 0]

I think you have discovered the culprit: The Magazine Door is somehow restricting the action of the follower trying to present the last round. The magazine door must be bent out of shape or warped so that it is rubbing on the magazine housing.

I can think of a few things to check and perhaps adjust. Check the rear end "wall" of the magazine to be sure it's straight and not bent in anywhere. Check the magazine door where it's touching the rear wall of the magazine....in your pictures we can see a small shiny/silver looking spot where it obviously touches or rubs. Also there is the possibility that the magazine door itself is warped... inward at the back and outward at the front causing the cartridge to hit the magazine door at the back sooner than it reaches near the front. Could the magazine door spring have been bent excessively at some time.

I can imagine any of these being contributing factors. So if the rear wall of the magazine is pushed in a little bit...push it back out a little.

If it appears that the magazine door has been warped from perhaps being pushed in too hard sometime...take it out of the gun and bend it out so it won't put pressure on an approaching round. The door should return to the outer, resting position when it returns from being depressed during loading.

If the magazine door is rubbing against a straight rear wall...remove some material from the rear edge of the door where that shiny spot is appearing. We have to free up that door so it moves freely in and out under just the spring pressure of the magazine door spring. Flatten the door spring out just a bit if you have to.

When you explained about prying out the magazine door 1/16 to 1/8 and that allowing the cartridge to advance into position...that must be made to happen without having to pry on it with a tool.

 

 

       

[cvgresch 0]

So I definitely get rid of the rubbing from the gate to the rear of magazine housing (looks like gate was not cut fully enough). 

I had to do some careful bending of inside of the gate that the rounds ride on to present to the bolt. I think some more vending may be required but it definitely helped with requiring less effort to get the rounds up into the right place. 

Initially I would guess that the tack welded piece that is used to keep the inside of the gate at the right distance from the body of the gate is a little off and thus requiring a good amount of elbow grease to get into a better state. 

Any other recommendations on this process. I think this is the last remaining culprit. 

Next item to address if the bolt stripping a new round when presented. I think I just need to re-oil and test out the other springs. I expect this to work better as I saw some indication of this when I oiled last time.

Thanks!

-cvgresch