Johnson Automatics Made Wildcat Cartridges?

[WHIG 0]

I have been reading through a fascinating old book titled Complete Guide To Handloading by Philip B. Sharpe. This book I have is the third edition written in 1953. The first edition was done in 1937. There certainly is a lot of dated material but the basics are absolutely amazing to read through by probably the most researched, tested and experienced hand loader of the early part of last century. I have learned more about head spacing, chamber pressures, primer seating and a variety of other topics about hand loading than I have ever known before. And I've hand loaded for over 30 years.

I found a short section I copied below about Johnson Automatics company making wild cat barrels and dies. I had never seen this before. Maybe it has been discussed previously.

Just thought I'd share this today.

 

[M48TANKER 0]

Thanks WHIG, very interesting. I'd like to find out more.

[douglas.hughes 0]

Congratulations on finding Phil Sharpe's tome. Every hand loader should have a copy and read it...often. The Lovell 22/3000 and the improved (by M.S. Risley with an assist by Harvey Donaldson) 22/3000 R-2 Lovell were pretty popular in the 1930's though the introduction of the 222 Remington in 1950. Another good book with a lot of historical information as well as good data (dated a bit) is "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters, another must have book for hand loaders. Enjoy!

[eb in oregon 0]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:52 AM, douglas.hughes said:

Congratulations on finding Phil Sharpe's tome. Every hand loader should have a copy and read it...often. The Lovell 22/3000 and the improved (by M.S. Risley with an assist by Harvey Donaldson) 22/3000 R-2 Lovell were pretty popular in the 1930's though the introduction of the 222 Remington in 1950. Another good book with a lot of historical information as well as good data (dated a bit) is "Pet Loads" by Ken Waters, another must have book for hand loaders. Enjoy!

I reload one specific wildcat, the 5.7MMJ. I see no reason to play with wildcats that serve no purpose other than just because. I find that 5.56/.223, 6.5 Arisaka, 7.62/.308, 30-06, and 8x57 Mauser suite all other purposes for me. And I've been reloading since 1975 and currently load for 24 calibers. I just recently installed a Dillon Square Deal for .45ACP about where that calculator is on the bench.

[ArtR 0]

Eric

I agree. There are so many 'new' and 'other' cartridges/calibers showing up every day. But when you get right down to it, what do they have that some of the nearly to 100+ year old cartridges do not have?? I load for a bunch of calibers, but mostly for old school stuff. .30Carbine, .38Spec, .38+P, .357Mag, .44Mag, .45Colt, .45ACP, 5.56NATO, .243Win, .270Win, .30-30, .30-06, .7.62NATO, .35Rem, .45-70. My feeling is that newer bullet and powder technology has allowed me to keep many of these old standby's very current and useful.

Great photo. I especially like the choice old school RCBS  single stage presses and other old school equipment. Reminds me of my bench. Especially the Midway wooden load trays, which are now impossible to find. I would (pun?) not trade mine for anything. I understand that there are some 'custom' wood trays available at times $20 a pop.

ArtR

[Ed Johnson 0]

When Eric refers to 5.7mm products, that would only pertain to the MMJ 5.7mm Spitfire that was "produced" (primarily due to my handloading in the early stages) by Johnson Arms, Inc. of New Haven, CT during 1963 - 1967. It was not Johnson Automatics, which had closed down a little while after WWII. I do not know personally of Dad's "wildcat" cartridge production post-War period, but nothing would surprise me. We're talking about a guy who motorized a Gatling gun and the rest is history.

And Eric's photo of his very clean workspace and his RCBS press looks very similar to my own (not so clean, but very active) in the basement of Dad's house in New Haven during the '60's.. The RCBS "H" frame was much sturdier than the other loading press manufacturers who mostly used a "C" frame. It put a full crimp on a .30 M1 Carbine case and necked it down with one pull for the 5.7mm size. We put thousands of cases through it.  ej

[ArtR 0]

And for those of you who are not into reloading, when Ed says the RCBS presses were sturdier, he means it. I have one RCBS single stage press, and it weighs a ton. I have seen many just like it, and other than some dirt, grease, or other crud, they are just as good today as they were when they were made, ever so many years ago. When it comes to needing brute force to resize, well lubed brass cases and an old RCBS press are hard to beat. I full length resized thousands of once fired 7.62NATO MG cases through my press, for use as practice rounds in my state issued M14 National Match rifle. I no longer do that since the US Army recalled all the state M14's back in 2007. I had the rifle in my possession for nearly 13 years. Those familiar with the M14 will notice what is unique about this photo.

[eb in oregon 0]

What's not to like about an accurized M14 with the selector switch? I'm just surprised you got to have one in your possession.

[ArtR 0]

Eric

Good eyes! What it does not show is the selector on this genuine M14 is 'welded' in the semi position only, required before the USAMU issued to the state rifle teams.  Our state service rifle high power team had a bunch of them. Most all had heavy match barrels, but two had medium weight barrels.  We 'loaned" the medium weight guns out to ''new' team members until we were sure that they were serious and would continue to compete. All full time team members had heavy weight guns. To be issued a gun, you had to be finger printed, pass a background check, and sign a ton of paperwork. Mine (above) went through the USAMU armorers at Camp Perry in 1996 and had a new 7-92 DCM barrel installed and then was re-bedded just before the matches. It was a literal tack driver at 600yds. I was our state's Civilian Service Rifle Champion two times with that rifle and barrel. When the USA/USAMU decided that the M14 was still a viable weapon for long range shots, they recalled all the weapons, and had them rebuilt with modern black plastic stocks and many added features.

Art

[camstuff 0]

I was impressed with the NM marking.  Now I’m in awe of your rifle. Very nice piece and a great story to go with it Art.  I think I know what I want for Christmas now! 😁

[WHIG 0]

When I read the above with the nice pictures, I had to take a few quick ones of my M1A (M14) I have had for many years. This rifle was built for me from the ground up by a shooting buddy of mine CWO John M. Miller, who wrote the book on M14s with Scott Duff. It is properly bedded and all of the bells and whistles of an expert gunsmith creation. I actually bought a selector switch (inactive!) from Fulton Armory in Maryland that John installed for me on the rifle to make it LOOK authentic. Not the same as yours, Art, but it looks good! And it shoots a ton easier in semi-auto than full auto. You probably have experienced that.

 

I have never shot this spectacular firearm because I have wanted John to go to the range with me to break it in. He has had lots of health and family issues and we have not had the opportunity to do so yet. But, I can't wait to take it out with proper military ammunition and test it out. I suspect it will shoot quite well.

 

 

[ArtR 0]

Hey WHIG

Unfortunately, "my M14" is now long gone. BUT....like you, I do have a Super Match M1A built by Champions Choice, back  in 1998. At that time we all suspected that the USAMU would recall the M14's and many of us purchased M1A's as back ups. Mine has the oversize, heavy weight, but still DCM/CMP legal, stock. A great 'upgrade' as it helped to reduce recoil, which was also a great relief when shooting matches.

I am very surprised that you have not shot your rifle. The rifle will scare you with how accurate it is, if built by a competent armorer/gunsmith.  If in fact the barrel is brand new, you might look up some of the "new barrel" break in articles that are/were out there. When I was actively shooting a lot, we did the usual shoot 5-10 rounds, either NATO or brand new handloads, clean the barrel, and repeat 5-10 times, and figured that was good enough. Back then, "moly bullets" (molybdenum-disulfide-coated bullets) were the new fad, but were so new that none of us tried them. Later we learned that it was not such a good idea and were totally glad that we had avoided them. You might also look into getting a NM hooded rear sight/aperture for your rifle, which will add 1/2MOA for your elevation changes. It is a not too expensive and easy DIY install.

Last I knew,  you could still buy 7.62 NATO rounds for relatively affordable prices.

Art

 

[WHIG 0]

Thanks for all the advice. I'll check into those parts. A friend of mine got into that moly lube stuff years ago and I researched it quite a bit. I was never really impressed because of what the stuff did to the barrels, so, I never took the bait. Glad I stayed away like you said.

 

Fortunately, I've got bunches of 7.62 NATO and I reload for the Garand and Johnson with care for the military specs. I do need to shoot this. Can't wait on the builder anymore!

[ArtR 0]

WHIG, just grab a few boxes of ammo, bring your cleaning kit, and plan on spending a "quiet" day at the range some sunny, very calm, day. Do the shoot and clean routine at any short range target BERM!. DO NOT ATTEMPT TO ADJUST SIGHTS. You are there to condition the barrel. Generally 50 rounds or so should get the barrel in decent shape. Then, if you still have time, get set up in a good prone position, if you like shooting that way, or from a solid bench, and shoot 2 sighter rounds at a new target at 25 meters (yards). Check to make sure that  you are on paper, If so, continue to shoot 3 more shots and do 4 good  5 round groups at 4 new targets. DO NOT MESS with the sights. Look for grouping only. Then sit down and play with the sights.

If you are very, very confident in your sighting and shooting ability, on a zero wind day, you can sight in a new barrel (gun) the way that I do. I shoot a control 5 round group at 25 meters (yards). If that group is on paper, where I aimed, then I slowly shoot 1 round at a time at 100 meters (yards) using 1" gradient marked targets and make a minimal windage adjustment until I am satisfied, then I shoot 1 round at a time making minimal elevation changes. When I say minimal, I do it this way. If the shot placement says 3 clicks up, I do 1.5. Follow that with another shot, and if the 1.5 did the trick, I follow with another 1.5 clicks, otherwise, I place another shot, check placement, and again do the 1/2 change. It is an effective way to sight in and not waste ammo. I usually do not make both windage and elevation adjustments at the same time so as not to confuse the issue. Also, by shooting ever so slowly, you are not heating the barrel, which can add a whole new wrinkle to the equations.

A competition highpower rifle secret. Once you are confident that you have your no wind zero, always back the sights down, counting 1 click at a time to zero. Mark that down somewhere in a book or on your rifle. If you ever are not sure where your sights are, have changed shooting distance, or have to disassemble the sights, your can always get back to a reasonable no wind zero quickly. When shooting competitively, we never guess. After changing range distance, we always move sights to zero and count back up to the known NWZ for that distance. In the previous photo of my old USAMU M14, notice the 4 yellow highlighted marks. Those allowed quick multiple confirmation of windage  zero for the windage knob.

The included image is a bit hard to read, but has my NWZ  for this rifle at 100 yds is Up 1 with arrow down meaning hood indicator down, and Right 2 and at 200 yds Up 4 down arrow meaning hood indicator down, Right 4. In my shooting log for this rifle I also have the 300, 500, and 600 yard NWZ written down.

Enjoy and report back soon. 

[ArtR 0]

My daughter reminded me and found a photo that she had taken of me just before I had to turn in my USAMU M14. Let's see how observant some folk are.

[eb in oregon 0]

Your fingernails needed trimming? Or the brake thingie? Other than that I've got nothing.

[ArtR 0]

Ha ha.... Brake thingie? Now I am confused. I will wait a bit for possible other observations before divulging specifics.

[camstuff 0]

Maybe the vest with all the different pads?  Or your grey hair.  I’ve got nothing else to. 

[tinsoldier 0]

Your 1907 sling has the hooks to the inside...

[WHIG 0]

You're a lefty?

[camstuff 0]

My next guess is an oversized charging handle. 

[ArtR 0]

tinsoldier: Sling is actually the 12-66 MRT that was assigned to that rifle. They had inscribed the SN on the leather.

WHIG: good catch, Shooting coat is a lefty. I am predominantly right handed, but  I learned very early on in my shooting career that I was left eye dominant, so I shoot lefty.

camstuff: Grey hair.....ouch! But the M14, other than the CMP heavy weight barrel and glass bedding, is all standard USGI M14

A couple hard to find/notice items: ball cap has metal replicas of all rifles that I have fired in competition, as a lefty, at Camp Perry... M1 (yup), M14, M15/16.  I never got to fire a 1903 at Perry. The little black dot on white tab taped on door, was my 10 FT  target for dry fire practice (A 36" dia 600 yd center reduced for 10 FT or approx 0.2" dia). I did a lot of staring and dry firing at that dot. Lastly, I had found some American Jean brand (no longer made) carpenter pants, that had sewn on padded leather knee pads and also leather butt pads (covered the rear pockets), which were very handy when shooting sitting. With a little tacky glue applied to the jacket black rubber panels, elbows would not slip off the knees. That same tacky glue helped the same on a shooting mat when shooting prone. When the jeans wore out, I had a friend sew the old pads on a new set of jeans.

[WHIG 0]

I've always liked puzzles. Had to look a few minutes at this before I saw that clue. 

I checked out my M1A and ran an oiled patch down the barrel just to keep it lubed. The bore is pristine although it has had a couple test rounds through it. I can see the hint of some copper streaking. I also see that he used a NM barrel. I don't know if it's Criterion or something else. I expect all the parts are high quality knowing this guy. I just need to shoot it. I will do a careful break-in. You gave a great example of a systematic process for break-in and sighting in. I shoot some long distance precision shooting and love the accuracy inherent in some rifles, scopes and ammunition. Always fun to hit what you're aiming at!

Thanks, left-eye!

[ArtR 0]

WHIG: You will have to let me/us know how you make out with the M1A, when you get a chance. Do not know your location, but here in VT, any serious range work is now months away. I also noticed that your M1A build has the bayonet lug, which is no longer seen on any newer Springfield builds. I have seen takeoffs sold by SARCO and others.

Camstuff: Seriously! Look into an M1A. You will not be disappointed.  Especially if you go for a match (now the loaded version)  or super match (now discontinued by Springfield) rated rifle. Current difference between Loaded and Super Match is Super had heavy weight barrel and oversize stock. My super match also has a 1:10 twist and will really handle some heavy wind killing bullets. While many like the composite stocks, with many state complaining about 'pistol grips', I personally stay away from those. Also, while I am sure they are good, I personally would avoid one with less than the 22" barrel, as the sight radius changes drastically. Probably not a big deal if you shoot scoped sights, but us older guys who still shoot iron sights with diminished eye sight will appreciate the longer sight radius.

[WHIG 0]

I don't mind the composite hand guard but I wouldn't touch one with a synthetic stock. Just don't like them. I'm an old fashioned Walnut, Beech or just crappy old oiled wood mil surp stock guy. I don't think i have ANY synthetic stock rifles in my collection. (Just like I don't have any Glocks! Yeeech!)

So, I agree with the nice Walnut wood on the M1A.

I'll have to check my records and dig out some more details on my build. It was done about 10 years ago. Yes, I've been sitting on it all this time without shooting it! Been too busy collecting and shooting Krags, Marlin Lever Actions, Colts and my great JSAR, thanks to the help here!