10/08/2023 New Link For Items Seen

[ArtR 0]

As the former '4-16-2023 Link" is nearly 6 months old, and getting pretty long,  I have consolidated all current 11 open items from that post into this post, and will add new ones as they are seen. Rifles that I know are currently open for bidding:

On Gun Broker:

SN 3224 (sold 12/12/2023  $11295),  SN 6705,  SN 9982,  SN A1947,  SN A4005 (sold 10/15/2023 $7913),  SN B0104 (sold 10/8/2023 $5025),  SN B1112 (sold 10/8/23 $7034),  SN B1483, 

SN B4405 (sold 10/12/2023 $4000),  SN B8229

On Proxibid.com:

SN 4881  (Gunslinger Auctions) (Ended)

 

[ArtR 0]

SN 0053 , which was discussed back in July, showed up on Proxibid.com (a Poulin Auction item)

SN 4881, also was on Proxibid.com (Gunslinger Auctions) has closed, with no results

[ArtR 0]

SN A9831 on GunBroker, nice condition (too nice??) with aftermarket sling (Brownells)  Sold 10/22/2023 $10025

[tinsoldier 0]

I agree with ArtR, it's awfully crisp.  The scratches on the barrel in one photo make it look like it's painted to me?    

[ArtR 0]

SN A9831 Note: suspicious 'black touch-up' on bolt stop (photo #28)?

[tinsoldier 0]

I see that!  It definitely looks like paint, or even a Sharpie touch up. 

[ArtR 0]

SN A9831  I am also struggling with bolt SN 5531 font. Notice specifically the '3' and the '1'.

I will try and do further research to see if there was a change in font style on other parts

[tinsoldier 0]

Yes, I see.  A different font like this always gives me the willy's... Takes me back to the early 90's when someone I trusted began faking Winchester Garand barrels. 

[ArtR 0]

2 hours ago, tinsoldier said:

Yes, I see.  A different font like this always gives me the willy's... Takes me back to the early 90's when someone I trusted began faking Winchester Garand barrels. 

Well, we did see a font change on the receiver markings, discussed in another post, and this could also apply to the bolt and other parts, but I have yet to find other instances, but I will keep looking.

[tinsoldier 0]

I recall that post, and I can see where a change of font could occur in JSAR production.  I'm just always taken aback by it at first, from my own bad experience decades ago. 

[eb in oregon 0]

I think A9831 is a Miltech restoration. The 4113 bolt does have a font change, the four is a smaller font, however it is a hand stamped part and punches only last so long.

[ArtR 0]

The comparative example font "4113" is the font that I have normally seen on bolts. I am still looking for other photos that show the bolt SN, but they are few and far between. But the '5531" on A9831 was strikingly different and got my attention. Much like the receiver a while back (B7633) that was totally engraved vs stamped.

[ArtR 0]

 Seen on GB today:
Two new SN's.

Interesting 'seller descriptions" on both. Buy the gun, not the story.

SN B4131 Includes bayonet, scabbard, sling

SN B8824  May be just me but stock wood  sizing in places seems strange. Some screws buggered, some not original,

[tinsoldier 0]

Stock does look odd to me in some areas also, in one photo, the butt plate appears off center.  Looks like one of the sling swivel screws is not seated all the way.  

That's the first time I've seen rough milling on the barrel collar, in the photo it looks to have fairly deep concentric rings. 

[M48TANKER 0]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:56 AM, ArtR said:

 Seen on GB today:
Two new SN's.

Interesting 'seller descriptions" on both. Buy the gun, not the story.

SN B4131 Includes bayonet, scabbard, sling

SN B8824  May be just me but stock wood  sizing in places seems strange. Some screws buggered, some not original,

This is all my opinion only and not meant to cast doubt on the gun, the story, nor the seller.

On SN B8824  It's not "just you" Art...that stock has so many discrepancies it boggles the mind.   The holes for the "recoil stop" and it's screws (securing the mainspring tube) have been "relocated" and the "original" holes filled with putty of some sort. The rear sling swivel is not original for a 1941 Johnson, and as noted, it's screws are not "fitted" properly. The in-letting for the sear housing/trigger guard has been altered, moved over, out of alignment, and wood filler placed around the botched hole. The stock is just "fatter" than usual and the buttplate just won't cover it. Lousy job of in-letting the tang of the buttplate too. (wouldn't you like to see if there are three holes under that plate?) I have a real problem accepting the part of the description reading: "The Stock is the original WWII stock that remains in its original, unaltered, military configuration" Maybe that description goes with another gun? My guess is that stock is a butchered replacement.

This is all my opinion only and not meant to cast doubt on the gun, the story, nor the seller.

[ArtR 0]

SN B4332 seen on Gun Broker, stock crack both sides near bolt stop,

Should note that SN B2182 has been and still is on Gun Auction, with its own issues

[ArtR 0]

SN X0003 on Gun Broker, I will leave this one to the experts for comment. This item was seen on Guns International back on 8/6/2023

[matconcrete 0]

Attempted to explain to him several years ago that this was a mock-carbine but he was to hear non of it.

[ArtR 0]

I have suspicions regarding the "SN" and "Type" which look more like engraving vs stamping or roll print. Number and letter fonts do not match other number and letter fonts used for the same rifle. The letters P, R, E, and the numbers 0 & 3 are most revealing, compared to other letters and numbers on the receiver. As original JSAR's never had 'white' inlays to the letters, none of the white inlays or 'color aging' can be considered when evaluating this item.

I have these same concerns as they apply to a couple other supposed 'prototype' items, such as X0007 and XLMR 03, which have been seen over the years.Link to this rifle from  RIA Catalog 50 of Sept. 10, 2010

[JSDKMS 0]

Below is the response I received from the seller after I asked for more documentation:

I have had nearly a dozen inquiries already with a variety of questions.  Every time I list a rare gun from my collection, I get a bunch of "Experts" with a million opinions of their own.  If you are a serious buyer I am happy to speak with you and share the RIA info with you.  Let me know.  Thank you

[ryche_me 0]

Any chance this was one of the very rare prototypes  built by   "our friend" at S**f city fire arms years ago?

They were often passed as originals.

I have seen some of his work in the flesh and it was always very good to the non knowledgeable eye,

Ryche

[Rarecat 0]

I had to look at this Holy Grail once again.  This time I noticed it is a "Model of 1940" so that clears it up LOL.  So many red flags it's silly.....

[matconcrete 0]

Very impressive workmanship, but why would a carbine prototype use an lmg lower? 
 On another note if I get a few minutes tomorrow I’m going to run down to Poulins and take a look at 0053, curious if some of the numbers are correct, I’m not planning on bidding on it. So if anyone is interested I will post it.

 Phil

[JSDKMS 0]

1 hour ago, matconcrete said:

Very impressive workmanship, but why would a carbine prototype use an lmg lower? 
 On another note if I get a few minutes tomorrow I’m going to run down to Poulins and take a look at 0053, curious if some of the numbers are correct, I’m not planning on bidding on it. So if anyone is interested I will post it.

 Phil

That would be great. Please let us know your findings

[ArtR 0]

Regarding SN X0003, your attention is drawn to an earlier (2021) discussion regarding carbines. Both Bruce and Brian contribute.