diggerj

I am also interested. Email is jdigioia2@cox.net and (401) 529-5317 .

diggerj

I'd like to express again the appreciation I have for the members of this forum who go the extra mile to help JSAR owners. Many of those are in the thread above and many more chime in when they think a contribution can be made or a situation clarified. We all want to build and keep a knowledge base beyond what is in print on these ever-so-quickly diminishing number of rifles.

BTW, when is the Joe Scott movie coming out? LOL

John D.

On October 9, 2015 at 9:35 PM, Joseph Scott said:

If you are feeling sharp edges on the lugs or at the chamber entrance, try a jeweler's file to smooth them.  I have seen some rear collars that had  "hammered" lugs creating burrs. The chamber entrance should have a slight bevel.  It might require removing the rear collar to clean things up.  If so, soak the inside threads with penetrating oil for a couple of days first.

Well, Joe Scott is the winner of the mystery round! I took down the high points on the entrance to give a better bevel and smoothed over with jeweler's rouge with my Dremel and it cycles like a new weapon.

I also cleaned up the follower (not really necessary), and took apart the buffer to clean. I had not done the latter previously, and it really needed it internally. Also put a replacement extractor in. Firing 140 gr 7x57 rounds was a real pleasure. The replacement mainspring measures 11-3/4" now FYI. 

Going back to 30-06 barrel using 165 gr Winchester rounds really banged up the brass. Only able to retain a single spent shell (threw the others too far into the range!). That's for another day or a lower load.

Once again, thank you Joe! Have you got a replacement spring for me?

Diggerj

Gents:

The one on EBay appears to m to be a reprint, save your money. Square corners and marked "1941" I don't believe is kosher.

would like an original myself.

diggerj

Well, still investigating. I think the rough edges I detected on the 7 mm may not be all that different from my 30-06.

The rear collar on the 7mm is marked "6863K" with the letter larger font. It is 1.345" long overall length versus my 30-06 at 1.409 OL. From rear end of collar over the ramp to the chamber face on the 7mm seems to be 0.855" and for the 30-06 to be 0.865" - that ten thou extra room in the 30-06. I tried to measure seated rounds to the rear end of the collar but can't easily force a reproduce able seat... 

These dimensions above can't reflect the actual internal dimensions from inside edge of chamber lugs to chamber face accurately, but the 7 mm barrel locks down with correct headspace. Can't figure this out myself but something doesn't look right to me.

Any insights out there?

Maybe the heavier load round will work but I don't belong to a club, so I bring out the "closet queen" rarely and can't report that now. Maybe just have made a bad deal on this bbl.

John

Lobo - the chambers have to accommodate the same bolt, so similar dimensioning should be safe.

Joe - the sharp edges are at the interior surface of the chamber lug ridges and would most likely clean up easier by removing the  collar. That is a little above (a lot above) my pay grade. I don't even have a real good vise to hold the barrel, never mind returning the collar to the origin point to retain head space. I am encouraged to get this done, so I'll figure it out.

This board is super -- continued kudos to all. 

Jim, don't fail to underestimate the value of your effort.

I'll report in when it is figured out.

Many thanks and my best,

John

Many thanks to all comments! I took tanker's suggestion and (with gross numbers output) pushed both barrels to the point of unlock against a bathroom scale. The no-problem 30-06 barrel took ~50 lbs and the problem 7 mm took 60 lbs.  Took the bolt and examined fit and resistance to rotation in each barrel chamber and found a "sticking point on the 7 mm not present in the 30-06 barrel. Chamber previously examined showed no pitting, although the ring Joe described really can't be easily seen with a bore light or flashlight, I don't think it is the cause. 

When I draw my finger backward from the shoulder of the chamber out the rear, I can feel a very sharp edge on the lug ridges - which is the face of contact - as if the barrel was milled and never deburred. From the land nearest the ramp up to the opposite ridge on the 7 mm barrel is ~ .010" shorter than the 30-06 barrel. Almost like the barrel was never "finished off", and possibly never fired to work the sharp edges off!

Does this seem like something a gunsmith with the proper equipment can fix by duplicating the 30-06 barrel dimensioning, or will a slow emery cloth rubbing by hand work? Ten thou is a lot of meat!

again many thanks. Look forward to comments (from Joe especially with all his knowledge). Good call Tanker!

diggerj

aka John

Thanks Joe, glad to hear from you. I'll get the chance to try the brass exam next week and see what happens. Hard to find a high load round anywhere and I squirm at the prices online (shipping) for a single box. Guess I need that as a last measure.

John D.

M... That was my first thought but couldn't find the ammo. Cabelas has a 173 gr round and I almost stopped yesterday going by Hartford from VT on 91. Too much traffic building, so I thought I'd inventory what I had first.  I plan to go tomorrow.

thanks and stay well.

Diggerj

sorry guys for poor input on posting.  I was in Art's country on our annual anniversary trip to Stowe and got lazy.

I use the same everything else when I change out the barrels, so the return spring, recoil spring, etc. are not a variable. Only the barrel is and I don't refer to caliber variance, but whole barrel variance.

I fired new Remington 140 gr 7x57 mm Mauser rounds. The very first attempt almost ejected but didn't have enough rearward force to fully eject and the spent shell got hung up. Subsequent rounds would not unlock the bolt lugs. I fired and manually ejected and reloaded without problem.

Putting a micrometer on both barrels shows virtually no variation to three decimal places on either bushing or followers.

I have a Joe Scott replacement 12" main spring, I know not NOS as it has an opposite twist to my original.

My closer look this morning back home at the 7 mm barrel looks like the thing could have had a little sloppy parkerizing or touch up park on the rear bushing. I just took my Dremel and jeweler' rouge and polished all the high points. It seems slightly harder in resistance to my 30-06 barrel in force needed to push back and start the rotating as it hits the cam. but then again, it may have been worse before. I may have made a poor trade, but the rifling is super and maybe just not used enough to break in the barrel.

The rifle is very clean always, and my 30-06 action is flawless.

I normally use a lube oil, do you think a silicone grease or other if I can't get her to eject and load a round from the mag or does this sound like a poor machining and a gunsmith? Since Joe Scott is retired, that means SOL!

Thanks for your responses.

Diggerj

aka John

Well, I will take my JSAR Out to a range soon (rare occasion for me) and will try to use my 7 mm barrel again. 

I stumbled on this in the archives and don't have enough savvy to know if this may be a cause -

To the posters with negative comments - Walt is probably too much of a gentleman to put you at the bottom of the requestor list. I'd do it in a heartbeat.

Glad you're back in gear Walt!

John D.

Only tried to fire it once in June with commercial Remington 7 x 57 140 grain ammo. Wouldn't cycle but fired fine manually. Any advice?

John D. Aka diggerj.

Anyone have a 1941 brown issued manual for sale in decent shape. I have couple of spare parts that might be part of the deal?

Model 1941 Manual

The issue manual for the '41 rifle has an buff coloured card cover and measures 7 1/4 inches x 4 1/4 inches. The card having a raised grain texture to it. It has 70 pages and a pull-out schematic in the rear, again printed on the shiny magazine quality paper. detailed within are stripping, loading and immediate actions in event of stoppages. It contains 30 photographs, mostly showing Mel Johnson operating the rifle. (Click image for some inside detail) from http://johnsonautomatics.com/manuals.htm

diggerj (John)

The Universal Winding company seen as part of the "Production" view on this site was later called Leesona (after it's founder, Leeson) and the Leesona winders as depicted here on the Johnson site showing the Leesona 60 were prewar products. My work some years ago in the textile specialties industry introduced me to the Leesona 50 model which I swear had a sheet metal cover over the helical gear the moved the winding point back and forth that was EXACTLY the same as that which my JSAR mag is made with.

Because those machines are so reliable they continue to repair and refurb them and you can probably still find them around. A local Rhode Island company does this but couldn't be coerced to give up any parts - I casually asked a few years ago.

See: http://www.standardmill.com/Services.html and select Model #50 - there are 6 positions with the covers over the helical gears that I refer to above. If I could only raid their junkpile!

John D.

^Ryche:

^{I know I could use a better spring when I load and would ask that you PM me what you would want me to do (where to send funds, check, money order or whatever).}

^{Thanks in advance,}

^Diggerj

^John

Nice expansion on this Jim, thanks. I will be going through the dozens of jars of screws etc. my very organized father-in-law has in the basement on steel shelves - the famous wood screw for JSARs is my target - NOS !! Any update will be some weeks away as I have a date with my kidney stones coming up next week and thereafter, but I'll log in any finds!

John

Timing is everything in life, they say - here's one example.

I got into this JSAR adventure by virtue of my son rummaging around in the basement of my then recently deceased father-in-law. He found a bunch of rifgle parts rolled up in a shower curtain and covered in oil/cosmoline what have you. Fast forward to a Google search for what was the radiator on a JSAR and follwed by a visit to Walt Liss who put the bolt handle back on properly and showed me old movies and a host of Johnsons etc.

We knew my father-in-law had come back from Vermont discharged before the second war started from the old horse artillery. He had worked in the middle-war years at the boatyard in Providence but we never discussed where he had obtained the JSAR because HE NEVER MENTIONED HE HAD IT! After his death, and knowing he lived probably within 8-10 miles of the Cranston plant making the JSAR, I assumed after the fact that he may have worked there at the plant in some capacvity.

Fast forward again to recent times when my wife is applying for a renewal of her passport for this Fall trip we plan. She obtains an original birth certificate she actually had never seen before. As they documented the stats of her parents it is noted:

mother - Lena ... age 19 ... occupation - at home

father - David Francis Pearson ...age 23 ...occupation -- "gun tester"

I guess we know from whence he got the JSAR, but can you imagine the questions he could have answered had we known before he died!

You can imagine I plan an extensive search of every niche and cranny in the house (I did a cursory one after finding the JSAR).

Walt Liss, I might ask you if the records show any initials of inspectors and if "DFP" might be one. Could even be a b+w film of him - that's for another time and space, though.

May all your times be good ones gentlemen - Regards,

John D.

Sign says Olympic Blvd - 300 West in LA

John D

I watched it and would have liked it better if he had at least looked at the good points, he seemed to only look at things he did not like,, I did see on a different program that the green berets chose it over the bar in the jungles of vn, lighter, can get lower to the ground like all side feeds, I have never fired a 41 lmg I like it better than the bren with those crazy ofset sights, my father always spoke well of a bar but said they were heavy a few pounds at the end of day means alot,, the other program spoke much more highly of the 41 Lmg, I would take the opine of a gree beret over some suit

I guess I would question the green beret who said the LMG was used in Viet Nam. First Special Service Force as the precursor to Special Forces and used them in WWII as we all know, but I'd be extremely surprised they were in VN. If pressed I can ask several who were there.

Rgds,

John D.

Looking at an original Barrel and Butt Stock for a Johnson SLR.

Wood is very nice, a couple of dings and a small chip but no cracks, Three holes in the plate end, no hardware included.

Barrel, finish kind of thin, original with correct markings, has Sight and Bayo lug, Barrel guide and Bushing.

He wants $800 for the pair,

A reasonable price? I havent seen too many for sale lately, What do you think? Should I bite?

The operative sentence is "haven't seen too many", but the condition and caliber of the barrel will justify that price if in very good condition. Still, a "fair" price is always is up to the buyer though isn't it? Best,

John

Here's one from way back courtesy Sgt. Hollywood.

Diggerj

Start with the barrel collar flush with the radiator opening (see pic) and put light upward pressure on the latch. Slowly press back the barrel with the other hand as you keep light pressure; and when the right spot is reached, it will slide right up and lock.

It's still possible that you have a bolt hold in the weapon but it is not engaging properly due to the retracting and subsequent replacement of the trigger block/butt stock lower section back onto the receiver during reassenbly without depressing the magazine door. You'll need to learn how to slide that back to see if one is there and then close her up correctly.

diggerj

okay please help. my father finally took the 1941 johnson rifle out that i bought him a year ago. he removed the barrel to clean it using a bullet as shown in the instructions. he can not get the barrel lock to close/ lock and does not want to force it closed. Also wether the safty is on or off he can not get the bolt to stay open. please tell me this is a simple fix. I was finally able to afford a johnson rifle for him and now it is nonfunctional. thanks for your help. until it was taken apart it fired and operated perfect.

Start with the barrel collar flush with the radiator opening (see pic) and put light upward pressure on the latch. Slowly press back the barrel with the other hand as you keep light pressure; and when the right spot is reached, it will slide right up and lock.

It's still possible that you have a bolt hold in the weapon but it is not engaging properly due to the retracting and subsequent replacement of the trigger block/butt stock lower section back onto the receiver during reassenbly without depressing the magazine door. You'll need to learn how to slide that back to see if one is there and then close her up correctly.

diggerj

The website states it's great for rust removal off iron and steel parts but can also remove finishes, e.g. "Parkerizing" which is a phosphate oxide.

WEAPONS / FINISH COMPATIBILITY

EVAPO-RUST® is highly recommended by the NRA gunsmithing school and is utilized by FBI, CIA, NATO and other law enforcement and forensics agencies. EVAPO-RUST® perfect for removing weapon finishes such as Bluing, Parkerizing, Zinc Phosphate, and Browning. Anodizing, powder coating, chrome, nickel, ion bonding, paint, and most other coatings will not be removed as long as they do not contain oxides. EVAPO-RUST® will not harm lead or solder points.

diggerj