How many Johnson's

[sinker4 0]

I know that there were aprox. 25,000 1941 Johnsons made but does anyone have an idea how many are still out there?

[diggerj 0]

I know that there were aprox. 25,000 1941 Johnsons made but does anyone have an idea how many are still out there?

You may want to ask folks how many there may be in original military configuration -- it'll be a guess but a smaller one!!

[Joseph Scott 0]

Between John Darling and myself, we have probably had more contacts from Johnson owners than most. Based on the known number of Winfield/Navy Arms re-imports and those repurchased by Johnson Automatics from the US, and our contacts, I am of the opinion that 90-95% of production still exists in this country. A few still in Canada and extremely few in Europe. There is a rumour that about 800 from the Bay of Pigs invasion are still in Cuba. I would put the existing number at 19-22,000. Maybe 40-60% are military style, balance sporters of some variety. Such a large number of existing production is because our military didn't have them to give away or destroy.

[samnev 0]

I don't know how many but I'm sure glad I got mine over 30 years ago in full military configuration.

[Guest 19pm42]

what is full military configuration?

wht did some johnsons have the notch out of the front forend for the crosspin?

[walt 0]

Guys,

The number 25,000 is a bit high. From what the site and research for "The Book" have shown there was a tad over 21,000 rifles assembled. As for spare parts I think it was maybe 2 or 3 times the number of rifles built. As for the number of rifles left it may not be as many as Joe stated. I think there may be only several thousand if that left. One just does not see too many of these rifles around. Shows I've attend I find rifles that bounce from dealer to dealer and the only thing moving is the price. I like to keep track of serial numbers for rifles I've seen, worked on or handled. If the amount stated was in fact correct the prices for these rifles would nowhere as high as they are now.

walt

[sinker4 0]

It might be useful and interesting to compile a list of serial numbers from the members and friends who own Johnson's now. This is the only group site that comes up on a search for Johnson info on the web, anyone looking to buy {like my self} or just gathering info on their own rifle would eventualy end up here. I't seams that the majority of owner would be in the U.S. and a few in Canada,"The Military Surplus" site in Canada does have a Johnson section but it gets very few posts.

[webmaster 0]

Back in the early days of the site we had a serial numbers section with parts listed too. Te problem was that it became slf-defeating because people would not give full details, even though the system was anonymous. When you get a serial such as 123X that is of no practical use.

[Adriaan de Jong 0]

Walt,

a thing to keep in mind, is that the bulk of the M1941's were ordered and paid for by the Dutch Government in exil. As you know, all of them should have been shipped to the Dutch Indies, but only a few arrived there. I know from "the book" and sources overhere in the Netherlands, that the remaining rifles were impounded(if called like that?...) in the USA.

Very few were borrowed or sold by the Dutch Government to the USMC.

What happened (and when) with the rest is not clear to me, and it's very difficult to find information about.

Known fact is, that the Dutch troops in the Dutch Indies that got away in time from the Japanese Invasion, went to Australia and fought on from there. I own one Johnson that was imported from Australia and saw a lot of action by the looks of it(sorry to say so, it's not on list with the known USMC rifles )

If any rifles went to Australia from the USA, I don't know. I asked the gun room boss in the Dutch Army Museum, he didn't know either. It seems very little to zero research is done so far about the History of the M1941 from 1942 to the mid fifties.

I ran/run into the same lack of Information when I try to find out what happened with the rifles after the war, where and when they were used etc. Would be a nice job for me when I retire....

I read somewhere that all Dutch M1941's were sold in two lots in the fifties and ended up back in the USA and Canada. If somebody knows how many rifles were in those two lots, you probably have a close guess to the total amount of rifles that were/are still in circulation.

Fact is also that these Rifles are very, very hard to find here in Europe. My feeling is you talk about maybe a couple of hundred, if that many.

Adriaan

[webmaster 0]

I have documentary evidence of deliveries to KNIL troops in exile in Australia and other Dutch colonies. Including dates, quantities and ship names

[Joseph Scott 0]

To my knowledge, all the 41's forearms had the notch for the spring pin retainer. If you have one without the notch, it is a non factory replacement. This is common on the sporter forearms.

[neisman 0]

Hello Walt,

For what it's worth to you, I have A4359 and it appears to be in good condition.

You can see it here. http://www.karlsatti...nson/index.html

I understand that records covering the letter prefix rifles are missing, but if anybody has any information about this weapon, I would appreciate a reply.

Regards, Karl

Guys,

<SNIP> I like to keep track of serial numbers for rifles I've seen, worked on or handled. If the amount stated was in fact correct the prices for these rifles would nowhere as high as they are now.

walt

[Bob Lamoreaux 0]

As Jim mentioned in his reply, a number of Johnson rifles were shipped to the Dutch (Netherlands) West Indies -- Aruba, etc. Further, a number were issued to the Netherlands naval forces, presumably the navy, though I am not sure whether there use by the navy was in the Netherlands colonies or generally.

Interestingly, the Dutch were purchasing munitions on a "cash-and-carry" basis for a significant amount of time after the Lend-Lease Act. The Dutch government, particularly the N.E.I., was considered to be the client of the British. I don't have any material on Johnson exports at this time, but suggest that virtually all Johnsons, except about 1,500 l.m.g.s (which may or may not have been '44s) were issued to either the Dutch or the USMC. There is a possibility that some JLMGs (approaching 1,200) may have been provided to French colonial troops for/during the Italian Campaign.

Unfortunately, dispositive documentation regarding the Dutch purchases/deliveries probably remains in the Dutch archives, with some info possibly in the British National Archives (formerly the PRO) possibly under the heading: Army Navy Munitions Board (London)[i could be wrong on this, but I seem to recall that the records for the London board remain in England]. The Munitions Export Licenses in the National Archives (US) may offer some clues as to how many and where Johnson weapons were shipped, but the Licensee will not be Johnson Automatics. Probably the Netherlands Purchasing Commission or one of its subsidiaries.

Alot of research is still to be done on the minutae of the Johnson history! Unfortunately, the more detailed or obscure the material, the greater the expense in digging it out -- either in time or money!

Bob

[walt 0]

Guys,

If you have time check out the Utube site. Type in Johnson rifle or Johnson lmg interesting stuff!

walt

[Mike-in-CA 0]

One thing that is seldom discussed, (probably because there's no way to accurately know), is the loss JSAR's by attrition over the years. We've all heard stories and seen examples of Johnson's lost in home fires or other disaster's. I remember seeing two seperate news reports of crackdowns by law enforcement of motorcycle gangs, for example, where the pile of guns confiscated, and presumably destroyed, included some JSAR's. There's no possible way of knowing how many Johnson's have been lost or destroyed over the years but I'd venture that it's been more than any of us would care to imagine.

Mike

[sinker4 0]

Going back to what Webmaster said about serial numbers,why does anyone black out part of the serial number? Do they think their gun was stolen at some time? I see it on other sites and have wondered why.

[enbloc8 0]

Going back to what Webmaster said about serial numbers,why does anyone black out part of the serial number? Do they think their gun was stolen at some time? I see it on other sites and have wondered why.

For privacy reasons (and I think there are multiple reasons--confiscation/theft concerns come to mind), I think many people don't want to post "traceable evidence" of something they have.

[neisman 0]

Good question. I do it because others have done it and I figured they must have a good reason.

Wouldn't it be funny if somebody did it by accident years ago and we just all followed suit?

Going back to what Webmaster said about serial numbers,why does anyone black out part of the serial number?<SNIP>