Stocks for Johnson

[Blumax 0]

Thanks to all who have responded to my question regarding the serial number of my 1941 Johnson. I now have a much better idea of what I have.

I am trying to learn as much as possible about this gun and I have the Bruce Canfield book "Johnson's Rifles and Machine Guns". Great book filled with tons of information.

However, I can't find anything in it about different stocks. My Johnson came out of the factory 3/5/1942 with a stock #2. Was there a stock #1? And/or were there stocks after a stock #2? What were the differences/similarities?

I would be very appreciative of any help that anyone could provide.

[Brian Alpert 0]

Many of the butt stocks were marked with a (assembly) number 2 on the flat of the recess where the front stock screw is located. The significance of this # is unknown for the stocks were identical and a great many had no number listed. Likewise, the face of the stock, butting up against the magazine, has a letter and a number stamped. The meaning and significance of these is unknown. Best bet is they were assembly or subinspection numbers. There is only one variety of an original JSAR. The only parts, to my knowledge, which changed during production were the cross pins (2 varieties are seen) and the rear sights (3 specific types are seen). There is one presentation JSAR known...it's in "the book". The rest of the different types are all aftermarket alterations done to surplus JSARs

[Blumax 0]

Many of the butt stocks were marked with a (assembly) number 2 on the flat of the recess where the front stock screw is located. The significance of this # is unknown for the stocks were identical and a great many had no number listed. Likewise, the face of the stock, butting up against the magazine, has a letter and a number stamped. The meaning and significance of these is unknown. Best bet is they were assembly or subinspection numbers. There is only one variety of an original JSAR. The only parts, to my knowledge, which changed during production were the cross pins (2 varieties are seen) and the rear sights (3 specific types are seen). There is one presentation JSAR known...it's in "the book". The rest of the different types are all aftermarket alterations done to surplus JSARs

Thank you Brian. My education continues!

Jim Maxwell

[TomW 0]

Brian-Did not the main stock change during early production. If my memory is correct, the stock started with wood wide enough, to include the cheek pieces behind the magazine. In other words it was cut & shaped from one piece of wood. Sometime during early production, it was decided that this wasted too much good wood. This led, to using a more narrow piece of wood for the stock, and gluing on a separate wood piece, on each side. These laminated cheek pieces, behind the magazine, continued to the end of production.

That said, I want to say, that I am not positive, that I have observed an original, single piece(including cheekpieces) stock. I checked out my non prefix, low serial number(◄ 1000)and found that it has laminated cheek pieces. My high serial numbered, A prefix(► 9000) also is laminated.

[mc41 0]

Brian-Did not the main stock change during early production. If my memory is correct, the stock started with wood wide enough, to include the cheek pieces behind the magazine. In other words it was cut & shaped from one piece of wood. Sometime during early production, it was decided that this wasted too much good wood. This led, to using a more narrow piece of wood for the stock, and gluing on a separate wood piece, on each side. These laminated cheek pieces, behind the magazine, continued to the end of production.

That said, I want to say, that I am not positive, that I have observed an original, single piece(including cheekpieces) stock. I checked out my non prefix, low serial number(◄ 1000)and found that it has laminated cheek pieces. My high serial numbered, A prefix(► 9000) also is laminated.

Responding to the debate as to when the laminated stocks were used. I own JSAR serial number 0067 of which Brian Alpert back in June 2008 inspected, disassembled and reassembled. Upon conclusion, Brian stated that he felt that he may of disassembled the rifle possibly for the first time and that the rifle was completely right. On the foregrip, Brian and I did in fact find the stamped letter and number. In addition, this very early production shoulder stock did posses dual laminated cheeks. Hope this helps, Marc Crumpton

[webmaster 0]

As we know stocks were first made in-house at Cranston arms upon Johnson owned machinery. However due to production difficulties and lost production the manufacture was sub-contracted to American paper Tube in nearby Woonsocket.

There is no specific start point for this change that has been discovered at the moment. It has been shown from known delivery dates in the production log and in material I have gathered from various archives, production of rifles followed no chronological method. So a no-prefix rifle could be delivered on the same day as a A or B series and so on. Therefore as production progressed into 1941 and 1942 you could have rifles of all three series with both types of stocks until the supply of the non-laminated type dried up. Obviously the very early rifles would all be of the non-laminated type.

Some researchers have published work intimating that all a series rifles were made at this time and all b at this, a fact that is simply untrue and can be proven to be so.

[Joseph Scott 0]

I just received a stock on 6000 range receiver and the stock with no "cheeks" is stamped on end with a "K" and a "4". It was a 7mm Chilean gun on which the stock seemed not to have been disassembled before. My guess is these are inspectors marks.

[ongaro 0]

Brian-Did not the main stock change during early production. If my memory is correct, the stock started with wood wide enough, to include the cheek pieces behind the magazine. In other words it was cut & shaped from one piece of wood. Sometime during early production, it was decided that this wasted too much good wood. This led, to using a more narrow piece of wood for the stock, and gluing on a separate wood piece, on each side. These laminated cheek pieces, behind the magazine, continued to the end of production.

That said, I want to say, that I am not positive, that I have observed an original, single piece(including cheekpieces) stock. I checked out my non prefix, low serial number(◄ 1000)and found that it has laminated cheek pieces. My high serial numbered, A prefix(► 9000) also is laminated.

mine is a solid piece ser # 2096 no laminat

[tsmgguy 0]

Old thread, I know. Here's a pic of these stock markings found on the internet.

 

 

[WHIG 0]

Interesting to review this great information. An assumption that seems to be made regarding the laminated cheek/solid "no cheek" stocks is that all of the solid, good wood was used before using any laminated cheek piece stocks. Maybe this isn't true. I have a "B" series Johnson rifle that has a solid stock. I have no reason to believe that this stock has been replaced. Maybe there were different runs of stocks made with and without laminated cheek pieces solely based on the availability of wood for the production of the stocks. They could have gone back and forth producing these stocks randomly and, therefore, no predicable pattern is seen. Always interesting to speculate.

 

With Krag-Jorgensen rifles, there was a short period of time in the early 1900s when American Walnut wood was not available and a lighter color Italian Walnut wood was used for the stocks. This has provided us collectors with an additional area of observation of the stocks on different Krags and tracing changes made and replacements done by observing the different color walnut stocks.

[ArtR 0]

FWIW: As many JSAR's ended up going through what might be called a 'interim period'. I.E., when they might have been acquired by the likes of Navy Arms or others, many were either bought and disassembled or were purchased as 'parts', and the guns reassembled. While, yes, some guns were built originally with solid stocks, it is quite possible for current guns to have other than original parts and stocks.

As we no longer have access to the "A" or "B" prefix production logs, we can no way definitively state whether or not some "A" and "B" prefix rifles were assembled at that same times as some of the non-prefix rifles, but it is quite possible that this was the case. The 1000 guns destined for Chile could easily factor in here, as only a portion of them are logged in the non-prefix logs, and several  "B" prefix rifles have appeared sporting 7mm barrels.  Also, parts used in assembly randomly by what was available in the "pick bin". It is sort of evident from the non-prefix logs, that as parts got low in a 'pick bin', they were replaced or topped off, and assemblers took parts "off the top" so to speak. I think the general consensus is, early on solid stocks were used, but when it was determined that the fatter stock blanks were too expensive, the move was made to using standard stock blanks and machining and gluing on the cheek pieces.

[WHIG 0]

Does make sense. Non-linear production by use of manufactured parts (including serialized receivers) placed in a bin and removed randomly for production and assembly is well accepted as to why parts are mixed on firearms out of sequence as well as updated firearms due to damaged or worn parts sent back for repair. The production of military firearms has never really catered to collectors, especially during wartime production. Good information!

[matconcrete 0]

I had always thought “early” stocks were solid also , along with early receivers using a backward c for the o, however s-10 coming up at auction has neither, so am I correct in thinking the shop samples were among the first built or?….