Delayed firing

[ryche_me 0]

Ok interesting situation, I took my Almost finished (just missing sights) Para-carbine out to test fire a few days ago. It delayed firing on the 1st round by several seconds after the trigger was pulled. On each group of five shots only the first round did it. Each round after the 1st went off with the trigger pull. I'm kinda lost as to what might be causing this... I did notice on cleaning that the washer around the fire pin was loose, so i have replaced it with a tight fire pin. I plan on trying that as soon as i can get back to the range. Any thoughts or ideas as to what might be causing this is appreciated. As a note the locking cam and roller assy. is from a DROR, but i have the same set up in my LMG which works fine so i don't think that is the problem. I could be wrong and if so let me know. Thanks for any thoughts on this problem. Ryche

[emmagee1917 0]

That is wierd. The trigger releases the hammer which strikes the firing pin which hits the primer . When you squeeze the triger , do you hear the hammer fall ? Chris

[M48TANKER 0]

Ryche, My first thought was delayed ignition due to a primer or powder problem. Commonly called a "Hang Fire." Of course, first you have to have the firing pin strike the primer. If you have another 30.06 that you could try the ammo in, you might try to duplicate the delay with another firearm. Emmagee1917 correctly notes that the hammer must fall. I'd look at the whole system from the trigger on up to see if you can find any binding that would slow down the process. If something is causing the firing sequence to be slowed then the problem you describe could occur. You might have already found it with the firing pin washer. You could reload a few cases with only primers and try a few. You wouldn't have to wait to go to the range for that if you do it safely at home. You can even reload with a primer by hand if you don't have the reloading stuff. It's got to be either an ammo problem or a slowed down firing sequence due to friction. One last thought.....If the bolt in not going fully into battery when it tries to chamber a round, it may be that it's taking the hammer strike to force the bolt closed and then fire the shell? Whatever you do, remember that if it's a "Hang-Fire" situation then the round can detonate several seconds after the primer is struck. Wait several seconds before manually ejecting the shell.

[ryche_me 0]

Chris: You can hear the hammer fall so i know its working. As Tanker stated the bolt may not be fully closing and the hammer knocks it into place and then fires. Maybe... Tanker: I first thought of a hang fire also, I am very familiar with them after having lost part of two fingers to a hang fire.( Long story i will tell you sometime). Anyway i ruled out the hangfire because it happened on the 1st round every group of 5 that was fired. Only once on the 3rd round but on none of the others. the odds of that many hangfires every 1st round are to huge to believe. So i went back to thinking mechanical issue. On cleaning i got inside the bolt with alot of penetrant oil and a bunch of q-tips there was some gunk that came out but not alot. Also cleaned the bolt grooves on the barrel extension really well in case there was crud in there, nothing major just some old gunk oil. I also got up into the locking section in the top of the rec. and cleaned it really well. With the addition of the tight fire pin i hope that solves it. As for the ammo it is the Greek HXP and was taken from an unopened can about 6 months ago. I have had no issues with it in any of the other JSARS or Garrands. I am pretty firmly convinced that its not an ammo problem. With the new fire pin in place when its dry fired it sounds like a more solid hit. That could just be my ears wanting to hear something better but i'd swear it sounds like a better hit by the hammer. I'm planning on a test run tomorrow as i have a couple other things that need to be looked at as well, so we will try it again with fingers crossed Thanks for the input guys, i will let you know. Ryche

[johnnygun 0]

The first round might not go off because you are manually releasing the bolt, whereas on the following rounds the bolt might close more violently as the rifle cycles. How good is your action spring? If changing the firing pin doesn't work, try a different spring. John

[Joseph Scott 0]

Inspect the back of the bolt lugs for deformation on the edges. I have seen a number with this problem. The inside lugs of the collar may also be deformed but you have to remove it to inspect. Let the bolt slam forward on a round and compare with your closing normal procedure. The handle should be in its down and locked position. Drag on the lugs and manual release on first round may be the clue to not firing first round. You could remove the firing pin and try closure on a new round with manual release vs fast closure. Be sure firing pin is out for trial. If the barrel tube has been replaced, there may not be minimum clearance from the angled face of bolt to the tapered chamber inlet and hence drag. Try some prussian blue on bolt tapered shoulder and close gently. Inspect for contact, there should be none. Tolerances of bolt and receiver were tightly controlled but none factory barrel jobs varied.

[ryche_me 0]

Joe: Thanks for the reply, but i found out today it was as simple as the fire pin washer being loose. The washer would move all the way to the front and off, but not to the rear So here is another you can add to your note book. I did check the lugs as per your suggestion from many earlier posts and no deformation. But it was your post about the various things that can happen with a loose fire pin washer that set me to looking there first. Went Out today with a replaced fire pin and she shot BEAUTIFULLY!!!! Easy cock,cycled well, and set off with each trigger pull as normal. Ejection was good and at correct distance. Accuracy was very good considering there were no sights on the rifle and the barrel has been cut down to 18 inch. I found something to point at looking right down the barrel, and my spotter said i was hitting consistently in the same area. So after remembering the list of problems that you wrote about,that was my best guess. I will be finding something sharp to reslake the fire pins i do have, to make sure they are all well. Some of it might have been just the amount of crap built up in the various locking surfaces but i believe the fire pin had the most to do with it. I fully appreciate all the input that i asked for and the guys who have had the time to respond. THANK YOU ONE AND ALL!!!!! Here is RYCHE with a really big smile :) So now we move back to the LMG project to bring it up to speed. Ryche