Anyone have any exp. replacing bayonet a bayonet catch ??

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Hey guys, I have a bayonet ('41 Johnson of course) I want to replace/install the bayonet catch & rivet on. I have an original catch & rivet. The bayonet has never actually had a catch installed & also has no serial #'s stamped on it. It matches my other original perfectly though, so I'm thinking it's a left over sold as a replacement when they were available. It's definitely not newer repo. as it has the right patina & again matches my original. Anyone have any tips on best method to seat/secure rivet & obtain the correct original look ?? I Plan on using this bayonet on Johnson#2 that has the lyman pistol style front sight as soon as I get that issue fixed !!

Also, any tips on getting pics to load, all mine I try to load from my saved pics in kodak easyshare jpeg files keep getting kicked back as error too large ?? The one you seen on my profile I loaded from a url & it worked fine.

Thanks again !!

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Sorry for the typo in subject topic. I hit wrong button & sent it. What I meant to type was

" ANYONE HAVE ANY EXP. REPLACING A BAYONET CATCH ? "

Thanks again !!

[Joseph Scott 0]

The rivets on the bayonet were installed with a special riviting machine called an orbital riviter. It hits many small hits ans goes around in an orbit to set the head. Don't know anyone who has one nowadays. An small air hammer might work but I would practice a lot first.

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Yea, that's a good idea , have a small air hammer may make a brass or aluminum "hammer" so as to not mar the rivet head. Probably best to use plenty of lube/oil during the process. We'll see I'll have to "practice" first as you stated !!

Thanks again Joseph.

P.S. figured I'd ask in case you read this again do you remember working on Johnson # B3356 It was not owned by me then. Do not want to post too much info. here (no offense guys) but if so let me know trying to verify some things !!

[Joseph Scott 0]

Use a steel hammer to set rivet. Other metals will not move steel and will leave the softer material on head, Don't remember guns by serial numbers and keep orders for only one year, sorry.

[M48TANKER 0]

Wally,

I have a bit of experience at riveting sideplates on 1919A4s and M2HB BMGs. I think you've got a replacement rivet that already has a domed head? I bought one of those from Numrich or some place years ago.

If you already have a domed headed rivet, then you are way ahead. I would cut/grind/mill/drill or whatever tool you have access to, and make a "divot" or concave depression in a steel block. Make the concave depression exactly the same dimensions as the head already on your rivet. Put the rivet down in the depression, set the catch and bayonet over the rivet post and then use a ball peen hammer to smash the shaft of the rivet. You can use a hammer and a large punch if you want..... but the hammer alone will do. You should practice with other "rivet stock" and find out exactly how much metal you need to leave above the surface of the parts before peening it. Too much metal and you'll wind up with a "pile" of smashed metal to grind off......too little metal and it won't fill the hole in the bayonet properly. Be sure to study the differences in the final look of an original bayonet's rivet ends, as compared to one of the reproductions. That is one way of telling if the bayonet is a reproduction or not...by the looks of the rivet ends.

I use a "Ball End" milling bit to hollow out a concave place in the scrap metal block. If you don't have access to a mill or drill press, even a hand drill or dremel tool will work to create a concave depression. Remember that the concave depression needs to be smooth and exactly the same dimension as the head of the rivet you are working with. Any imperfections in the concave depression will be transferred to the domed head of your rivet. Practice, practice, practice. Contact me if you have any other questions.

M48TANKER

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Tanker,

yep, rivet has domed head already. That's more less what I was thinking, steel block w/ dimple for head of rivet to rest in, but I'm planning to use my hyd. press to seat rivet. I figured after determining the approx. length of excess before the compression (rivet is definitely too long as is) I'd be able to control the seating w/ a more uniformed end result that should look close to the original. Not worried if it's perfect, but want a clean finish w/ the rivet snug & filling the void. May need to carefully file it flush. ( my originals are slightly below flush w/ void uniformly filled) but again if it turns out close i'll be happy. Thanks for the advice/tips all are appreciated. Probably will start working on it in the next month or so.

Wally

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Well, mission accomplished !! Replaced the bayonet catch & turned out well, I am very pleased !! Thanks to everyone & their advice. I ended up using a steel block shaped to fit head of rivet & then using my hyd. hand press slowly seated the rivet & it filled the beveled areas perfectly (rivets are softer than anticipated. Maybe could have trimmed 1/32-1/16 off the rivet length before hand, but it's flush & seated very securely. My originals are all slightly recessed, which in hindsight after doing this one can be fairly easily done if I had to again.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who offered their advice all were used in some form !!

Wally

Now, I need to get the original front sight & bayonet lug back on the other Johnson.....Hey there Mr. Scott if you're bored I may have a job for you if you'd want it !! I'd gladly send the barrel to you , After removing the pistol style front sight I was surprised at what was underneath ... in a good way !! However, I don't have access to what I would need to restore it correctly & do not want to ruin an original barrel !!

[M48TANKER 0]

Well, mission accomplished !! Replaced the bayonet catch & turned out well, I am very pleased !! Thanks to everyone & their advice. I ended up using a steel block shaped to fit head of rivet & then using my hyd. hand press slowly seated the rivet & it filled the beveled areas perfectly (rivets are softer than anticipated. Maybe could have trimmed 1/32-1/16 off the rivet length before hand, but it's flush & seated very securely. My originals are all slightly recessed, which in hindsight after doing this one can be fairly easily done if I had to again.

Anyway, thanks again to everyone who offered their advice all were used in some form !!

Wally

Now, I need to get the original front sight & bayonet lug back on the other Johnson.....Hey there Mr. Scott if you're bored I may have a job for you if you'd want it !! I'd gladly send the barrel to you , After removing the pistol style front sight I was surprised at what was underneath ... in a good way !! However, I don't have access to what I would need to restore it correctly & do not want to ruin an original barrel !!

Well.....there's something I've never done: remove one of the sporting front sights. Did you have to use heat 'n beat, or just tap it off? Press it off?

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Tanker,

Actually I got really lucky w/ that sight removal project. The barrel is an original johnson as previously mentioned, but (I could be wrong here) appears to have never been fully machined for the steps that the front sight & bayonet lug seat against (were any of the left over barrels sold this way as replacements?) The barrel is over sized & needs to be turned/machined down in order for me to get the sight & bayonet lug back on for stock configuration. I at first thought "great" someone had turned it down to "smooth out" the barrel due to lack of a prominent step, but nope that was my "good surprise" after removing the pistol style front sight.

The sight itself came off surprisingly easy. All I had to do was tap the sight blade itself out & underneath was one tapered "set" screw, loosened it up & w/ a few gentle taps from a wood block it slid right off !! I was very,very pleased, did not have to heat n beat !! So, there is a small drilled depression for the "set" screw in the barrel, but nothing that can't be fixed as it is not obviously threw into the bore. Bore shows no distortion from the drilled hole. I Should be able to weld up the void & turn everything down to right diameter & install original sight & bayonet lug back on & give the old Johnson some dignity again !! However, I do not have the lathe to machine it down & do not want to let someone "give it a try" !! So, as stated if any of you guys can help me out, please let me know !!

[amish-bob 0]

Where abouts in SCPA are you located? You can email me at rswi65@aol.com. I might be able to help you and we might not be too far from each other

Rob S in PA

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Amish-Bob,

I sent you a P.M. w/ my location.

thanks,

Wally

[WallyatPearl41 0]

UPDATE !!

I fixed / restored the sights & bayonet lug on the Johnson !! After no luck w/ getting any local help I did it myself & it looks great ( would post pics but never can get them to load, says their to big but I use jpeg?)

As it turned out whoever had originally installed the pistol style front sight was actually a very capable gun smith. Initially as you'd expect the machined steps for sight & lug would have been milled off to smooth out appearance, but as mentioned in earlier in the post that was not the case.

What I thought then was an unmachined/finished replacement barrel (barrel is original w/ all correct Johnson marks/proofs) needing turned down to size to install bayonet lug & sight turned out to be even better yet !! Again, my thanks to the unknown individual who did the sight job, they thankfully had the insight to not alter the barrel, but instead took the time to machine a sleeve to fit perfectly over the step & sight & bayonet lug set pin grooves. It matched up w/ the outside taper of the bore perfect as well & even blended into the crown area virtually undetectable to the eye. The only way I actually realized it was sleeved was close inspection of the shallow set screw hole for the pistol sight. I noticed a tiny seam between the two metals & was like " wow that's a sleeve !!"

So long story short, after a total of about 10 hours start to finish sleeve was removed everything cleaned up & inspected , then installed the original replacement bayonet lug & front sight. The are both tight & secure & bayonet fits perfectly !! Plus you'd be hard pressed to ever know what was done due to the fact all original work was still intact underneath all components are lined up straight & true. I finished it off by rebluing the barrel to match the rest of the rifle (yes, it had been blued & no longer parkerized)

Now, the ole '41 has a little more of it's dignity back & I'm sure it sets a little taller on the rack w/ the other Johnsons !! (could be the fact the bayonet can be finally installed again..LOL !!)

Thanks again to all you guys who provided parts & advice on both the barrel & bayonet !!

Wally

[curious 0]

UPDATE !!

I fixed / restored the sights & bayonet lug on the Johnson !! After no luck w/ getting any local help I did it myself & it looks great ( would post pics but never can get them to load, says their to big but I use jpeg?)

As it turned out whoever had originally installed the pistol style front sight was actually a very capable gun smith. Initially as you'd expect the machined steps for sight & lug would have been milled off to smooth out appearance, but as mentioned in earlier in the post that was not the case.

What I thought then was an unmachined/finished replacement barrel (barrel is original w/ all correct Johnson marks/proofs) needing turned down to size to install bayonet lug & sight turned out to be even better yet !! Again, my thanks to the unknown individual who did the sight job, they thankfully had the insight to not alter the barrel, but instead took the time to machine a sleeve to fit perfectly over the step & sight & bayonet lug set pin grooves. It matched up w/ the outside taper of the bore perfect as well & even blended into the crown area virtually undetectable to the eye. The only way I actually realized it was sleeved was close inspection of the shallow set screw hole for the pistol sight. I noticed a tiny seam between the two metals & was like " wow that's a sleeve !!"

So long story short, after a total of about 10 hours start to finish sleeve was removed everything cleaned up & inspected , then installed the original replacement bayonet lug & front sight. The are both tight & secure & bayonet fits perfectly !! Plus you'd be hard pressed to ever know what was done due to the fact all original work was still intact underneath all components are lined up straight & true. I finished it off by rebluing the barrel to match the rest of the rifle (yes, it had been blued & no longer parkerized)

Now, the ole '41 has a little more of it's dignity back & I'm sure it sets a little taller on the rack w/ the other Johnsons !! (could be the fact the bayonet can be finally installed again..LOL !!)

Thanks again to all you guys who provided parts & advice on both the barrel & bayonet !!

Wally

How did you get the sleeve off?

I would have tried heat to expand it and loosen it up but I'm always worried about discoloration of original finishes when I do that.

[WallyatPearl41 0]

Curious,

Hey buddy !! Wasn't ignoring you just been busy.

Anyway, I initially loosened the sleeve w/ indirect heat as to avoid any discoloration or possible warping by slowly heating it over a glass top burner, which did work after several times of heating & cooling. Then worked on the area where the set screw had been to allow sleeve to slide off easier. I then decided to split the sleeve length wise to slightly spread it open making it even easier to slide off. After that using a block/piece of wood & some moderate blows it worked off w/ out any issues.

It was a bit of a learning process & slightly nerve racking since I never removed any sleeve from a barrel, let alone an original Johnson, but I took my time & thought out each step. I would do it again now w/ out worries !!

So, after sleeve was removed, I cleaned up the barrel steps & set pin grooves. I used 400 grit wet/dry paper, sanding w/ the machining marks in the barrel & various fine gun smith specific files. After wiping down w/ carb cleaner to remove any residue, I then test fit all components. Front sight fit perfectly very snug & actually required some light taps to seat. Bayonet lug was a little loose so, I actually made an extremely thin sleeve by sanding down the original sleeve. Then applied locktite to the barrel left it set-up & then did the same when installing the lug & finished off by pinning it. Made the pins for both bayonet lug & front sight out off steel stock & it worked perfectly. End result both are tight & secure & you really would be hard pressed to tell it ever was sleeved w/ a tapered front sight. Also re-blued everything from, bayonet lug step forward to match, that took several applications till I was happy w/ it.

There are other ways & methods to perform what I had done, but the way I described worked out for me & again I couldn't be happier !! I've always been one to" just do it " & have found very rarely can you destroy something beyond fixable !!

Wish I could post some pics, but have no luck when trying !!

Curious, PM me if you want & I'll send you a few. I have no before (sorry) but will take some of the completed job & of the sleeve.