Lmg at poulins

[matconcrete 0]

Here are a few photos of the lmg coming up, this was supposedly owned by James Fasoli of Stamford CT. Not sure if he is known by some of you fellas. Let me know what you think. Thanks.

[Ed Johnson 0]

Name from Stamford doesn't ring a bell. $15K price very low, as these, with proper provenance, go for much more....well in excess of $40K    Ed J

[Brian Alpert 0]

I don't understand the pictures.  The 3rd pic shows a LMG receiver with bolt stabilizer.  The 4th pic is a marked semi-auto receiver without the stabilizer as is the 5th.

[matconcrete 0]

Sorry I took a couple of the partially built semi lmg , put on some of those by mistake. The 15k is opening min bid ,

Poulins Class III expert, Jeff Zimba, will be doing a video with this johnson, and should have it online soon.

[matconcrete 0]

I did not expect this to happen but I ended up the winning bidder on #68 lmg at poulins, 34,500.

Cant help but wonder if the incoming administration is effecting prices of full autos as many were low.

The onsite mg guy expected this to bring over 60. That being said Im now in need of a few spare mags and manuals if there are any to be found, Id like to completely disassemble it and post pics for feedback as im in uncharted territory wit this. Thanks, phil

[Ed Johnson 0]

I was puzzled, as was Brian above, by the photos. Thank you for the clarification. Did I miss the full serial number of the LMG itself? You mention a # 68. If that is the actual serial number, it is listed on page 246 column 1, 4th block of 6/28/42 USMC transfers.  If the piece is legit, then you got it at a low price  ej.

[matconcrete 0]

Serial number is 0068, you sent me scrambling for Bruces book, I did not realize it was listed, thanks for your astuteness.

Any Idea why it is listed twice? May 7,42 and again June 26, 42.

[matconcrete 0]

I kept reading in the “book” and answered my own question on the double listing, However I was wondering are the part number records available for lmg’s similar to a non prefix ‘41. Thanks 

 

[Ed Johnson 0]

No, there is no production log available for the '41 JLMGs. But at least your receiver is in the book with some USMC provenance.. Congratulations. ej

[Brian Alpert 0]

Great buy!  Numrich has magazines @$45

[matconcrete 0]

History of #0068 gets more interesting, I contacted Cody Museum about this, as they have all the Winchester records and I’ll paste in their response.

The only note about the gun other than the physical description in the inventory is that it came from “M. M. Johnson” and was received in 1949. Melvin Johnson gave Winchester a large collection of LMGs and rifles when he was working with the company in the late 40s. Some ended up with us and Winchester disposed of others. A few have actually come back to us through collectors over the years. But there is a substantial listing of his guns in the old inventory.

 

Any thoughts on how #0068 would have ended up back with Melvin? Thanks,you folks are an irreplaceable resource.

[Brian Alpert 0]

I can't attest to the accuracy of this as it came from an old Numrich Arms catalogue (back when they distributed hard copies).

When MMJ became a consultant/employee of Winchester, part of the deal was that Winchester would take over the inventory of the defunct Johnson Arms.  Winchester kept the guns but had no use for the large stock of parts which they sold to Numrich Arms of West Hurley, N. Y..  Numrich in turn sold most of them to Cecil Jackson who had purchased the Dutch JSARs from the government of the Netherlands and needed the parts as many of the JSARs were in sad condition from poor storage.  Jackson ultimately either set up or was associated with Winfield Arms.  It is believed that Winfield was responsible for the majority of JSARs in the US today.

Ed, your comments would be appreciated

[Ed Johnson 0]

As to Brian's summary, that is a reasonable explanation. Winfield would be a key factor with the majority of Johnson Rifles. Not so sure about the LMGs. And there were a few "independents" such as "Doc" Ross (Old Bennica Arsenal) who got into the act and, in the process, have caused a good deal of confusion with some of the mis-information on the guns. Without going into direct detail, I refer everyone to the postings at the beginning of the rifle section by Webmaster Jim Pullen regarding such things as "Estate" collections.  In short, buy the gun, not the story.

[matconcrete 0]

Didn’t make alot of sense that M johnson would re-acquire a usmc issued lmg. What was the common practice of disposing of weapons after a war? Thanks, Phil

 

[Brian Alpert 0]

0068 looks to be in superb condition, much better than one that was ever issued.  Perhaps it was papered for purchase by the USMC but the purchase was cancelled or for some reason, never went through.

[Ed Johnson 0]

Brian's explanation is reasonable. It is also quite possible that USMC had "borrowed" some JLMG's from Dad as a form of loan. If actually intact, it may have been used for "show" purposes, as his ties with the USMC were very strong. In any case, no matter how you slice it, #0068 is entered twice in the Canfield-Johnson book as being allocated/related directly to USMC provenance as well as being directly connected with property of MMJ, Jr via Cody Museum....currently purchased at a low price. You really can't beat that combination ! Merry Christmas !  ej

[matconcrete 0]

Thank you very much, I’ll breathe better when papers come back from atf. phil

[matconcrete 0]

 

 

A side note Ed, I don’t know if the family camp at Moosehead is still in the family but the trip would take you within a few miles of where I live in North Anson, ME. You and any members of this site are welcome to a “on the house” round of golf at Diadema golf club. If ever in the area. Again thanks for the information and history.

Phil

[matconcrete 0]