Johnson on Gunbroker

[MAS 0]

There is a JSR on Gunbroker with some unusual features. I'm curious as to what the experts here think of it. No offense intended if the seller is a member here as I'm just learning about these rifles.

[Turbo 6 0]

Here's the Link

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem....p?Item=44919487

I think the "Comment" about the Scope mounting holes is Wishful Thinking

on the Sellers part

T6

[webmaster 0]

I thought it was a very amusing description really. May be this month's amusing ad winner!

An exceptional Johnson Model 1941 Semi Auto Rifle, serial # B33XX in 30/06 cal. 24" round barrel with 90%+ original pakerized blue finish remaining. All original oiled walnut stock, issued to USMC  Paratroops and or Raider Battalions in limited numbers at the out break of WW11. Barrel marked 30-06 J.A.the barrel and front sight have blue finish,rear sight has a real nice blue finish also and has elevation marks, peep type rear as issued. Also has Cranston Arms Company mark enclosed in a triangle. Bolt numbers do not match receiver,Johnson parts and complete rifles were invariably miss matched. Condition is excellent through out, bore is also excellent plus, wood is in fine condition with light wear all markings are sharp. Mechanically excellent, this rifle is also equipped with a suppresser mounted on end of barrel. I understand these were installed on some earlier rifles tested. It to is made and marked by Johnson, another experimental item is it has two drilled and tapped small holes now filled with screw in plugs. This also was of an experimental nature for scope mounting and accuracy testing and or sniper use. Stock has some unit marks, butt plate is smooth, no trap. A very desirable historic firearm. all long guns are shipped in a new hard case and card board sleeve, the hard case is retained by buyer.

The "suppressor" is a post-war muzzle brakes Johnson's fitted to some of their custom sporter line.

[Matt K. 0]

The real experiment is whether somebody who knows nothing about buying firearms (let alone Johnsons) will come along and plunk down $5k.

Too bad. My guess is it goes down with no bids. For a more reasonable price, the rifle would sell.

[capthowie 0]

Well it pays to advertise, but you have to be careful about what you say. We've all been accused of embellishing facts and when you do some one might have a different take on the issues.

This JSAR is not exceptional .... this an average gun that you typically find in your hunt for a Johnson.

Obviously, the seller has never been on this forum, otherwise his descriptive presentation won't have been so fictional.

Just to critque :

#1 His barrel is 24" (most Johnsons have a 22") ....extra length maybe to hang that suppressor on? ....where's the documentation?

#2 He lacks an understanding on coatings. You're either pregnant or not. You can't have a parkerized blue finish. They are completely different processes. (Must have been a Winfield some time in its colorful life).

#3 I enjoyed the fanciful story about experimental scopes,accuracy testing,and sniper use. This is straight from the factory.... RIGHT!

#4 Too bad about the two drilled and tapped holes, as this is the hardest fix and devalues an otherwise run of the mill JSAR.

#5 I hope the rifle shoots better than his camera.

[Tim 0]

From the photos it looks nice. They need to show more close shots and I think it would sell in the $3600-4200 range depending on a closer view and someone may give more if they have the extra cash to play with...just my thoughts.

[Brian Alpert 0]

What a description! What wishful thinking! If the wood and bbl are original it is a $2500 rifle. The drilled and tapped receiver markedly decreases the value in my mind. I've seen a lot of JSARs but never one with a compensator on the bbl. It is certainly not investment grade.

[Alasdair MacDonald 0]

The compensator, as stated by Jim Pullen, was installed on bolt action Mauser action sporters. With this additional weight, I would be curious to see if the bolt reciprocates to unlock and cycle the rifle. The weight of the barrel is critical as was indicated when the Dutch wanted a bayonet and they came out with the long heavy one shown in photos. The problem was the additional weight caused the rifle to not cycle and they eventually came out with the light "tent peg" type. Looks cool, but probably will deter cycling of the action. I know a gunsmith with 50 years of experience who had a customer with a Jhonson in .270 cal. He had a heck of a time to get the rifle to cycle even by this minor change. Everything must be in balance and weight and spring strength. Change one and you have a domino effect that can cause problems. Cordially, Alasdair

[Ed Johnson 0]

Alasdair is correct on the barrel weight affecting the unlocking mechanism of the recoil action. I am also wondering if the "compensator" refers to the Johnson Muzzle Break, which was NOT designed for the JAR but for bolt action rifles. I would think the muzzle break would reduce recoil, as it is supposed to, but as a result also affect the JAR unlocking mechanism.

Yes, the "tent peg" bayonets were light enough to avoid interfering with the JAR unlocking. They were also not a favorite item for Dad. He did not feel that they were very usefull on a semi-auto WWII rifle. The concept of the bayonet came from WWI usage on bolt action rifles.

Not that Dad had anything against knives, per se, as he used to practice throwing them into wooden board targets up in Maine all the time. Ed J

[Magellon 0]

I have to agree with Tim's estimate of selling price. I haven't seen a

Johnson going for anything less. Maybe, I'm just not swimming in the right pool.

Mine was unfortunately drilled under rear sight; yet it's still a Johnson.

[ArtR 0]

A friend, who is on GunBroker, passed an email to the seller along with a link to this forum earlier last week advising that he might want to view comments on the forum and maybe reconsider the asking price on this piece. Noticed this AM that after one week there have been many views but not one bid. With a week to go, he could change price or pull the listing.

[capthowie 0]

Well I see our friend on Gunbroker has reconsidered his position. His price is now $500 less and his description is a little more generic. A $4000 starting price maybe could have started a frenzy. I think he lost his opportunity.

There's that old saying that keeps popping up in the back of our heads that you can't ignore ..........."Buy the rifle not the story". He needs to give us something to look at.

A well done set of photos (at least 10) will draw more attention. Clear and detailed photos will certainly give the viewer more help in deciding if this is the rifle he's been looking for. If as a seller, you're digital camera challenged, find help.......... we're all still learning.

[webmaster 0]

An exceptional Johnson Model 1941 Semi Auto Rifle, serial # B33XX in 30/06 cal. 24" round barrel with 90%+ original dull blue finish remaining (original). All original oiled walnut stock, issued to USMC Paratroops and or Raider Battalions in limited numbers at the out break of WW11. Barrel marked 30-06 J.A.the barrel and front sight have blue finish,rear sight has a real nice blue finish (original) also has elevation marks, peep type rear as issued (original). Also has Cranston Arms Company mark enclosed in a triangle. Bolt numbers do not match receiver,Johnson parts and complete rifles were invariably miss matched. Condition is excellent through out, bore is also excellent plus, wood is in fine condition with light wear all markings are sharp. Mechanically excellent, this rifle is also equipped with a suppresser mounted on end of barrel. I understand these were installed on some earlier rifles tested. It to is made and marked by Johnson, another experimental item is it has two drilled and tapped small holes now filled with screw in plugs. This also was of an experimental nature for scope mounting and accuracy testing and or sniper use., this is all reliable information. Stock has some unit marks, butt plate is smooth, no trap. A very desirable historic firearm. all long guns are shipped in a new hard case and card board sleeve, the hard case is retained by buyer.

This is the updated description. Still amusing by its vagueness, generalisation and unsubstantiated claims ....oh sorry "this is all reliable information"

[ArtR 0]

It is interesting that after a week or more with no bids, and maybe after having read posts on this forum, the seller has tried reducing the minimum bid. Maybe not enuugh, but if he reads the posts again, and maybe if he cleans up the description, he may get an opening bid.

I do not get many people asking for information on JSAR's, but the few that do, I tell them to visit this forum and also offer to let them look at my copy of "the book."

[Ed Johnson 0]

And....we still have the question about the device on the end of the barrel. I'm not clear on whether it is a muzzle brake or a flash suppressor. Ed J

[webmaster 0]

Ed, I believe it's a Johnson Muzzle brake. Though the description is a somewhat "grey" to say the least!

[Alasdair MacDonald 0]

A flash suppressor normally has no holes anywhere on the side or top in order to hide the flame following the emergence of the bullet. This only helps slightly as it depends on the powder and length of the flame. If the shooter is pointing directly at you, you will see the flame about the time the bullets enters your body. I have personal experience with this one.

A compensator does just that, it compensates. The gas will take the path of least resistance. By re-directing the gasses in a particular direction you counter the movement of the barrel. For every action you have an equal and opposite reaction a la Newton. Example: The Cutts compensator on the Thompson is designed to keep the barrel down and not climb by directing the gasses vertically through the vents.

A muzzle brake does the same thing and works the same way as the compensator, but generally directs the gasses in a direction to pull the rifle off of your shoulder and thus reduce recoil and or direction. A good brake will actually pull the rifle from your shoulder during fully automatic fire. Sometimes these devices do two functions and are therefore used synonymously. These devices also change the frequency of the report and make a distinct sound difference sometimes very painful to your hearing. Hope this helps. Cordially (pedantic) Alasdair