M1941 Johnson Gunbroker find; what do you think?

[Wubbman 0]

Gents, I've only recently found this site and never posted. I've been looking for the right Johnson for a long time. I think I finally found the one. I bought this rifle at auction earlier today. I corresponded with the seller over a few emails and got additional pics. The rifle is certainly used but appears to be in pretty good shape. She reports that the bore is dark but has rifling left. We'll see. http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=200242331

For that price ($3825), I think its a good deal. If memory serves, its the only decent looking Johnson in original military configuration I've ever seen that has gone for less than four grand. The seller says its S/N is A9910. I know Canfield states that they weren't assembled in S/N order, but this one is close to one of the rifles used by the USMC according to Canfield's table. Wishful thinking on my perhaps though... Interesting enough, a photo she gave me shows the S/N stamped into the right side of the stock. Has anyone ever heard of this?

Let me know what you think. I've already paid for it, but don't restrain from comments. My heart won't be broken.

[M48TANKER 0]

Well, I think you did OK. It sure looks to be all original to me. Personally I've never heard of the serial # being on the stock too, but I can't say that some military unit didn't do it. The NPC put serial numbers on the bayonets....didn't necessarily match the rifle? but I'm not sure the bayonets and rifles stayed together. Other than cleaning up the barrel and mild non-abrasive cleaning of everything else, I'd leave it just as is, wood dents, scratches and all. But to each his own! I've been able to work wonders with dark bores on MG-42 machine gun barrels. I chuck up a cleaning rod in my cordless drill, attach a bore brush to the end, use lots of old US mil-spec bore cleaner and run the brush through the barrel as long as it takes to make it shiney again. You might not get out any really bad pitting, but you can sure make it shine. My brother collects all sorts of military rifles and he completely restores every one...that's the way he likes it. He steams the dents out of the wood, touches up blueing, uses a whole lot of BreakFree on everything else. He can really put a nice original looking finish on a Johnson, Mauser, or anything else. He can match original military finishes on most all guns. Welcome to the board by the way. You'll enjoy it here. M48TANKER

[Brian Alpert 0]

Looks OK for the price....if it functions. Hard to tell from the photos but looks refinished in one pic in that everything matches in color. You can't really get hurt on a functional, military configuration JSAR for that price.

[Wubbman 0]

Thanks for the replies. I'm glad I did ok. I will post pics when I get the rifle and then a range report after I fire it. Please keep the comments coming. I'm very familiar with the M1 (I have 11 of them), but the Johnson is a strange bird to me.

[ryche_me 0]

AAAAHHHHHH But a strange new and wonderful bird. This definitely one of those where the bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

Welcome to the forum. This is a great group of people with ALLOT of information to share.

Ryche

[Wubbman 0]

Alright, it has arrived! Please tell me what you think.

The overall shot.

Well, at least there is a little bit of life left at the muzzle. The rest of the bore leaves quite a bit to be desired, but the chamber appears rust free at least.

The markings appear crisp and clean. I don't think this one has been refinished.

According to Canfield, that star means it was accepted by the Dutch for service in the Pacific Dutch East Indies.

The rear sight.

[Wubbman 0]

The serial number was on both the front and rear stock assemblies.

The beginnings of disassembly.

Disassembly was made easier by 'Johnson Cat.'

Barrel markings.

Given how crisp everything looks, I really doubt its been refinished, especially the barrel.

[Wubbman 0]

The first chink in the armor. Will shooting it make this even worse?

The next chink in the armor. Are these cracks easy to repair?

The working parts in the stock.

Has anyone ever heard of the bolts being numbered to the rifle?

At least I have some storage space in the butt, after I use the disassembled charging handle as a screw driver to take the buttplate off (a very clever tool inclusion in my opinion).

The Johnson meeting some friends before the safe is closed for the night.

Thanks for looking this far. Comments are welcome.

[ArtR 0]

While I suppose it is possible, the odds of having a bolt with the same serial number are a bit high...

As for the cracks....I have been playing with a product by The Wonderlokking Corp, Box 755 Wisconsin Rapids WI 54495

called "Wonderlok 'Em Tite Chairs ®"...appears to be "super glue" but comes in a fairly large container (.7 oz) for about $7 at True Value hardware....sold as a product for tightening up loose chairs and such, it has worked wonders on some chairs and on a couple of old "1903 stocks" that have had cracks....however, I have not yet used it on any prized possession such as a Johnson, but from what I have seen, it works quite well, as long as the crack is fairly clean and can be "clamped" closed...the result is a nearly invisible and quite durable mend and any excess can be removed...a year later, the chairs are still tight, and are used in every day use...I would suggest trying on a piece of scrap wood or junk stock and decide from there....has anyone else tried this?

[wwiifirearms 0]

Looks nice!!!

The matching bolt seems odd, but I don't think it hurts it or helps it, just odd.

I would try to stabilize the crack before shooting. I haven't done it myself, but a friend that is an experienced woodworker has done some amazing repairs by injecting glue into cracks and clamping them. I don't know what type of glue or the exact procedure, but you might want to seek out someone that is experienced with wood and/or furniture repair. If you happen to be in Ohio, I might have someone for you.

-wwiifirearms

[wwiifirearms 0]

Also, I would agree that it looks like the original finish to me. Seems like a lot of variations in the color of the finish on these guns. Likely the result of variations in both the original color and later contact with oils and greases. Your gun looks lighter than some (could be in looks lighter in photos than in person, also common), but still correct in my opinion.

What do I base this on:

-markings are strong

-texture is correct, not gritty from new parkerizing or too smooth from polishing.

-slight edge wear and other minor imperfections are not covered by a new finish.

The only thing that surprises me is that the metal seems a little nicer than the wood, but that also seems fairly common on Johnsons.

I'll be interested to see what others think of the finish.

-wwiifirearms

[M48TANKER 0]

Your rifle looks great to me. If you want prettier wood...I've got some to trade you. It's some really beautiful Winfield Sporter furniture though...hehehe. I see that you do have the "bolt catch" installed. When you put the rifle back together, hold down on the magazine "door" and push the shell follower in a little bit to let that "tang" on the end of the bolt catch lever, to seat into the magazine properly. If you are unhappy with your new acquisition...I'll give you your money back . Hey...that's a nice looking BAR in your safe too. I've always wanted one of those. I wish I'd bought one from Ohio Ordnance a while back. M48TANKER

[Wubbman 0]

Thanks for the kind replies everybody. I kind of agree that the metal finish is better than the wood finish. I too am unable to explain that. The wood has a pretty grain and color too it, but I can't see having it refinished. I guess no one has ever heard of the bolt or wood being numbered to the rifle? I will see about something to put in the cracks in the stock. I will say that when I tightened down the screws that hold part of the stock and trigger assembly, it didn't seem to make them spread anymore (it also made the lock up between the stock and receiver much tighter). I'm very happy with the purchase and to finally have one of the rifles. I've been looking at the auction sites for quite sometime and finally pulled the trigger on this one as the money was finally available.

That BAR is a recent addition, as are the two M1s and M1917 pictured. Those M1 are both IHC gap letters, one from the 4.6mil block and the other from the 5.1mil block. Behind them in the borestore cases are nine other M1s, three M1 carbines, an M1903A3, and assorted other US weapons. I'll have to get everything together for a family photo here soon. You gotta love deployments, if only for the cool toys you can buy afterwards!

Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

[Wubbman 0]

One thing I think I need to clarify (as I can't find the pic I took), is that that the bolt's actual number C1300, while 9910 is stamped on the other side of it. I almost wonder if it was added after manufacture. I might have confused some of you by not clafifying that at first. Happy Thanksgiving!