Help Identifying Sporter Model 41 Automatic (56K No)

[Datsun40146 0]

This is my fathers deer rifle; he won in a poker game around mid-60ies or so. I don't know allot about but have found some interesting facts about it at the Johnson historical website. The rifle lacks the rotary magazine found on regular M41s; it lacks all provisions for sights, but has a flattop scope mount. The stock is unique and has two cracks in it as pictured below. The magazine is what is most interesting as it is flush with the stock and holds 5 rounds internally. From what I've found and its features could the rifle be one of the one sporterized by Taft-Peirce Co or Winfield. I have attached several pictures of the gun any help in indentifying the weapon or providing the history would be greatly appreciated. The serial number is B0677, which is the 2nd generation early production. The receiver also has JA 30-06 and semi-auto, Johnson's Automatics Paris Rhode Island. Again any information and or value would be great.

[Datsun40146 0]

[Datsun40146 0]

[dash 0]

Wow, love all the pictures! Without the radiator and the rotary magazine, at first glance it looks like a normal semi-auto rifle.

[Datsun40146 0]

Ah but that is exactly why its special, its stamped Johnson automatic model 41. However its sometype of civilian sporter model. However its exact history, lineage or value I have no idea. I hoped an expert might be lurking about somewhere...

[wwiifirearms 0]

Interesting!

Some close ups of the receiver would be good to see. The best way to get good close up pics of a gun is to take the picture outdoors in natural light. (unless you have special lighting like a photo booth) You will get better detail than with a flash or normal indoor lights.

Based on the serial number and mark at the base of the barrel, my initial thought was that a gunsmith converted a military model. However, the extent of the differences makes me wonder if it isn't something Johnson whipped up in an attempt to save the company after the military contracts dried up.

The Canfield book has a few pictures of Johnson sport rifles and prototypes. I'll have to look to see how this compares.

-wwiifirearms

[wwiifirearms 0]

Interesting!

Some close ups of the receiver would be good to see. The best way to get good close up pics of a gun is to take the picture outdoors in natural light. (unless you have special lighting like a photo booth) You will get better detail than with a flash or normal indoor lights.

Based on the serial number and mark at the base of the barrel, my initial thought was that a gunsmith converted a military model. However, the extent of the differences makes me wonder if it isn't something Johnson (or Winfield) whipped up in an attempt to save the company after the military contracts dried up.

The Canfield book has a few pictures of Johnson sport rifles and prototypes. I'll have to look to see how this compares.

Update: I checked the book and nothing really close to this. A few box magazine sporters, but all have the "radiator".

-wwiifirearms

[Datsun40146 0]

Could the radiator have been removed or lost at some point in its 60 year life span? What would be you best guess as to what it is? I ran into the same problem finding information online. I could never find one exactly like it, I too considered that it might be a gun smith job. However the extent and detail in the changes leads me to think otherwise. Are there any specific pictures anyone would like that might help?

[Joseph Scott 0]

My guess is that it was a custom gunsmith's work. There were some very skilled people after WW2 and they did lots of this type of customizing. I know of several persons who tried enhancing Johnson's over the years, many seemed to be out west.

[Datsun40146 0]

Since it might be custom gunsmith work, does anyone have any idea as to the value. I don't plan on selling it as it was my fathers but it would be nice to know for insurance value.

[wwiifirearms 0]

For pics a couple areas to consider looking at:

1. The Cranston Arms mark in the triangle on back / side. If it has the small * proof mark, then I would say it must have been in the military configuration at some point, at least the receiver was.

2. The markings above the serial number.

3. The front of the receiver where the radiator is normally found. Assuming it was removed, I'd be looking for signs of it having been there. It would have been originally welded to the back og the receiver.

Value is going to be hard on this because it is likely one of a kind. You may hear anything from "priceless" to "parts gun". When I appraise guns I consider two values, Liquidation(what can you get for it) and Replacement (what you should expect to pay for one if you needed to replace it).

In this case the two values are very different. Liquidation value is going to be fairly low unless you can document more on how it came to be in it's current configuration. I would guess $500 to $800. On the other hand, Replacement value would be much higher because it would be hard to replace. My best guess would be to replace it you would need to by a Winfield of similar sporterized Johnson and then spend some serious Gunsmithing money, so I would say $2000-$3000 to replace it. Obviously I would not suggest spending even $2000 to replace a gun that you could only sell for $800, but for insurance replacement value I'd use $3000.

Other may come up with far different numbers.

If you need a formal appraisal for insurance send me a PM or email ray@wwiifirearms.com

-wwiifirearms

[webmaster 0]

A full serial number (if it is as you state a non prefixed rifle) might sort out to where it was sent and it's eventual entry to the US Civilian market.

[M48TANKER 0]

Have a look at my sporterized Johnson 1941 with the detachable box magazine. It's in the gallery photos under "M48TANKER". My rifle has the Cranston Triangle mark and NPC acceptance star on the right rear of the receiver. It, too, has had the "military" sights removed and had a scope rail on it at some time. Also has a "Marbles" buckhorn rear sight. No bayonet lug and a different front sight. The wood on the stock has been "joined" professionally near the box magazine. It's done so well that you can barely see it. I'm a retired Home Building Contractor and finish carpenter, so I know that whoever did the "joining" of the stock by the big lapping "dovetail" was a pro. My rifle has never had any sort of sling loops? Strange, if it was meant for the civilian hunting market. Like the other guys said, after the war a lot of 1941 Johnsons fell victim to "sporterizing" by various companies and individual gunsmiths. M48TANKER Try this link and see what you get: http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=1497&st=0&p=4843&#entry4843

[M48TANKER 0]

By the way, my rifle definitely started life as a Rotary magazine model. At some point the rotary magazine attachment points were machined off. Then a box magazine well was fashioned and a detachable box magazine was added, similar to the "V" model. M48TANKER