Johnson Indoor Target Gun

[huskytim2008 0]

I have two Johnson Automatics , Indoor Target guns. The surgical tubing has disintegrated but, still attached. The blued finish is fine on one but freckled on the other. They are not rusted up and both are complete. I haven't found any for sale and would like to know what they might be worth. There is an unused target that is folded up that came with one that I believe is original. Any help would be appreciated.

[Ed Johnson 0]

If they both have the slide piece that carries the bb down the track, they would each be worth about $50.00 to me, as I do have others. If you don't get better offers, and want to sell them, let me know estimated shipping costs and I'll mail you a check. Contact my E-mail:    edwardrjohnson610@gmail.com     I have an office in Groton, CT     ej

[huskytim2008 0]

OK, here's what one looks like!

[Ed Johnson 0]

OK. Thank you for the photo. Do both guns have the inside slide piece which holds a bb in place so that the surgical tube rubber band can launch the bb out of the muzzle? Without this key piece, the gun cannot be used to shoot anything. Finding bb's and surgical tubing is less difficult.   ej

[Mitch J 0]

I wonder if someone with a 3D printer could make that BB carrier?

 I have two Indoor target guns, one without the carrier.

 

[Ed Johnson 0]

I believe the original slide piece was black plastic. It had a tendency to crack in the middle, its weakest point, after a large number of shots. If it could be made out of stronger material, the problem would be resolved. At this point, we would need to use an actual piece in order to reverse-engineer a design.

The carrier piece was designed to receive a bb from a top feed after the gun was cocked back, and then simply release the bb out the front muzzle after firing.

Basically, the gun was a glorified slingshot using the rubber surgical tubing. It was deliberately low-powered for short-range target shooting and safety. It would not even burst a rubber party balloon when hit, as described in the Johnson's Rifles & Machine Guns book.

[ArtR 0]

I think that MitchJ may be onto something with a 3-D printer. Yes, if someone has one with the original part, a 3-D printer could make replacements. The parts may need some smoothing/touch up with a Dremel, but they should work.

[Barry in IN 0]

I just looked to see if there was any progress here.  With 3D printers getting more common, I was hoping someone had tried making them by now.

Anyone?

I don't have a 3D printer, but have access to one and someone who knows how to use it.  Now if I only had a carrier to copy.  I have two Indoor Target Rifles, but neither has the carrier.  

 

I'm not about to ask to borrow one to copy either.  Since it would be out of my hands while being copied, I don't want to be responsible for safeguarding the return.  

Maybe someday soon we can get a part owner and printer owner together!

[matconcrete 0]

I need a slide also, sounds like a market is there for production of a limited number.

Phil

[Rarecat 0]

I just got one of these Rifles off Fleabay and it has an intact BB carrier.  I'm willing to provide pics, measurements or even the piece itself for reproduction.  I'd obviously like some assurance I'd get it back intact in a reasonable amount of time.

[matconcrete 0]

Can you post a few pictures of the slide piece, I’ll ask around.

Phil

[Blueheeler 0]

I wonder if it would be possible to scan and 3d print copies.

[Rarecat 0]

Here are some pics for you...

[M48TANKER 0]

Fellows,

Now I've resisted getting one of these for many years now. You all have me stirred up. So here I go on the hunt for one. Somehow I thought they would sell for more. I'll be watching Ebay for one.

 

[eb in oregon 0]

I would not like to make one of those out of aluminum billet. That part would take a lot of machining. And to try to make a run of them on a hand cranked machine (even with power feed and a DRO) would not be conducive to time vs profit either. I'm pretty sure 3D printing is the best option as it would be the least expensive option in my opinion.

[ArtR 0]

I agree a 3-D printer would be best. Plastic might work, but boy, if someone had one of the metal dust units!

[eb in oregon 0]

17 hours ago, ArtR said:

I agree a 3-D printer would be best. Plastic might work, but boy, if someone had one of the metal dust units!

The problem there is weight. If there is even a small difference in weight that would soak up energy from the rubber bands and the velocity would be even less. 

[matconcrete 0]

This conversation is going to go way to far but, would anyone know what “muzzle velocity” was ideal for these originally?

and Can one assume the surgical tubing has improved in quality since these were built? 
I agree with Art , even if I had to finish it with hand tools. That would be it for the cats.

 

[ArtR 0]

As we do not know the tensile or tension strength of original surgical tubing, or the original length of tubing included with the gun, it is hard to suppose what the original tension or energy that  was applied to the piece in question. However, if one were to shorten the original tubing and yet stretch it to the needed length, without breaking, I would have to assume some additional energy would be introduced, which might overcome any additional weight for the piece in question. Some other 'engineers' might want to chime in, but I am drawing from some ancient CE education/experience that I once had. I have to think that there is some lightweight metal (aluminum?) that might be easily used to recreate this piece.

[matconcrete 0]

UHMW poly is tough but I have no idea what can be put through a 3d printer.

[Ed Johnson 0]

Folks, you might also affect velocity by lightly oiling the slide to reduce resistance. And yes, the tubing these days might be different. And the original guns were not supposed to break the balloons worn by the scantily clad model, mentioned in the Johnson Rifles and Machine Guns book (pp 212 to 215). A muzzle velocity of 90 to 100 fps is also mentioned. Accuracy at 15 to 20 feet with the ability to light match heads is noted. I remember having one of these as a 7 year old kid and learning how to shoot with it, but then being bored with it when I got a bit older. However, at least they weren't noisy.

[matconcrete 0]

Don’t forget your ffl type 07, prior to manufacture.

 I’ll talk to my machinist friend but I suspect if a cad drawing needs to be made prior to printing that may get somewhat involved.

[eb in oregon 0]

14 hours ago, matconcrete said:

Don’t forget your ffl type 07, prior to manufacture.

 I’ll talk to my machinist friend but I suspect if a cad drawing needs to be made prior to printing that may get somewhat involved.

There need be some sort of drawing with dimensions. Due to the nature of the part and it's function I'm pretty sure the tolerances are "loose," but to try to make a duplicate without a drawing or the part itself would be a useless endeavor. A CNC milling machine could make them fairly quickly out of aluminum, but right off the top of my head I see at least two separate operations (maybe three) and a form tool keyway cutter. 3-D printing would be the best way to go.

[matconcrete 0]

Had a discussion with one of my employees this morning. He showed me a small rebar chair he made out of a tough black plastic he had made just playing around with his 3D printer, I showed him photos of the slide piece and he thinks it should be no problem, may need to clean up some with a file after but he felt it was doable. 
 Big question is does anyone dare ship me a slide so we can scan it? If it works we should be able to crank out a handful for not much money.

Phil 

[ArtR 0]

Rarecat at one point offered to 'loan' his part out for reproduction.