Legit Johnson type?

[mbpope 0]

Morning fella’s

looking through gunbroker like I usually do and came across this Johnson posted this morning. Looks like a hybrid LMG and Semi Auto.

 

it looks weird just wanted to know if it was actually legit or some Frankenstein. I admit I don’t know a lot about the LMG versions of the Johnson. 

i know this is an active auction so if it’s against the rules please remove. 

 

https://www.gunbroker.com/Item/852925793

[ArtR 0]

Hmmmm....receiver has fresh grind/file marks....all things are possible, but this sounds kinda suspicious....I liked the comment that since JSAR's are rare, thus this Frankenbubba might be a one of a kind so  therefore really rare. And the provenance? It had been loaned to a museum??? Really?

[mbpope 0]

Yea I saw the air and space museum statement too.. it seems weird to me looks like intentionally missing front hand guard to make it look more machine gunish. 

[Brian Alpert 0]

It's a Frankenstein!  Someone mounted a LMG magazine support assembly on a modified (ground off the rotary magazine pin retainers) JSAR receiver and buttstock/trigger group.  I have never seen this configuration but I have heard of attempts or plans for this.  The usual LMG-semi conversion uses a JSAR receiver modified to accept the LMG components (less the full auto stuff).  The mag support assembly is the difficult to find part.  It goes for $2K and up alone!

[mbpope 0]

Yea that’s what I thought and the modified rifle you show here looks a lot better like actually practical.   Thanks 

[Joseph Scott 0]

The mag support looks unfinished, if so it may be one of my new production.

[ryche_me 0]

I have seen this once before... (may have been this one) 8 or so years ago at the SAR show in Phoenix AZ.looks ridiculous in person. And just WHY???????? 

If they have done the same horrors to the mag housing as mine the rear hanger has been cut off. and the top  rear lip of the housing has been shortened.

It is possible to replace it BUT you need a very good machinist and it aint cheep.

Ryche

[ArtR 0]

I contacted the seller of this rifle and his reply boiled down to this: "First of all that description is the exact on(e) from the auction company, Xxxxxx's, that I bought it from."

He further replied:   "...the description though it says this may have been a prototype as well. Meaning it would t be either of the two exactly. But again, I am putting it up as such because that is how I bought it and just passing the knowledge their reputable gun experts say ..."

So buyers beware.

As we always say, "Buy the gun, not the story."

[Bruce Canfield 0]

I always get a chuckle when I see one of the "semiautomatic light machine gun prototypes" offered as a genuine item.  There is NO evidence that JAMCO ever made such an item which isn't surprising because it would serve absolutely no purpose.  What is the point of a semiauto-only LMG when a standard LMG can fired in the semiautomatic mode by simply turning a lever?    PT Barnum would be pleased!

[ArtR 0]

Bruce: Thanks for your insight.

After contacting the him, I am pretty sure that the current owner is now aware that this gun is not what it is purported to be, and yet he probably will not change the description, as evidenced by his statement: "First of all that description is the exact on(e) from the auction company, Xxxxxx's, that I bought it from."

I did a search on the auction house site and indeed, "his description" appears to be copied from their description, including the museum reference.

[ryche_me 0]

I have been thinking about this ...and it wouldn't be a bad place to start for an LMG build.   Figure the mag housing (depending on how badly screwed with) at say $1000 to $1500.

The barrel at $700 to $800 easy. Partly modified Rec. at $1000 your already at $3000 plus there with several hundred dollars worth of other parts.

I would consider giving $3000 to $3500 for it in parts alone. A reasonable LMG kit missing the mag housing (as most are,,Bipod as well) But your on your way to a reasonably priced semi LMG.

Ryche

[ArtR 0]

Ryche, you are correct, it is worth something in parts alone, but I truly question $5000. A recent sale of a correct completed SemiAutoLMG recently sold on that 'auction site' for just about $6500.

JOHNSON ARMS MODEL 1941 SEMI AUTO VERSION OF LMG.

Est. 5,000.00 - 8,000.00 USD

 

Date Sold: 10/23/2018

Price Realized:

6,462.50 USD

[Ed Johnson 0]

OK. No I really don't think JAMCO made this one. They DID make the Johnson Auto Carbine, which WOULD have been a useful product. We believe Bruce owns the Jorgensen Carbine in the Johnson book. BTW, if someone would like to private message me the name of the auction house, I'll add it to my little "file."  ej

[Bruce Canfield 0]

Ed, I do own the Johnson Auto Carbine, Serial S-5. I fired it for an episode of American Rifleman Television a couple of years ago. Other than an example (or possibly two) in the Cody Museum, it is the only genuine specimen I am aware of.  There have been some professional-quality assembles of fake/reproduction/replica Auto Carbines done using a mixture of M1941 Rifle and LMG parts but the genuine examples have several key components that are readily distinguishable from standard JSAR or JLMG parts.   Some of the "semiauto LMGs" are very well done as well but, as I indicated, it is doubtful in the extreme that any such weapon was ever built by JAMCO. I purchased one of these guns a number of years ago because it had a genuine bipod which was missing from my transferable M1941 LMG. The craftsmanship of the "semiauto LMG" was very good.  I subsequently sold the the gun, sans bipod, to a friend who was aware of why I bought the gun in the first place. He was happy and so was I since my JLMG now has a genuine bipod.

[Ed Johnson 0]

Yes, Bruce, I knew you had the s-5 Carbine, and the '41 LMG. Didn't know it was absent a proper Bipod. Joe Scott built a group of (I think) 20 LMG bipods years ago. Walt has one. Joe did a good job.

[Bruce Canfield 0]

Ed,  the LMG (with a USMC provenance) was missing the bipod when I bought it, but the "semiauto LMG" I also purchased had a genuine bipod. As I mentioned, I simply took the bipod and put it on my original LMG and sold the "semiauto LMG" (now missing the bipod) to a friend who knew about my reason for purchasing the semiauto in the first place.  A "win/win" deal.