Has anyone ever seen a stamp like this?

[Wubbman 0]

Gents, I posted some pics of my rifle over at ar15.com and someone responded with by saying that JSARs that actually made it to the Dutch were marked with the Queen Wilhelmina crest on the receiver. Has anyone ever seen this before? There is not a mention in Canfield's book, but I guess anything is possible. I'll let the pic he provided speak for itself.

[Joseph Scott 0]

The "W" crest was put on several rifles by someone in Califonia years ago. I have one and we had several at the Houston get-together some years ago. They have several size markings but all have the same error which means they were pantograph engraved with non original pattern. They are not factory produced but an interesting example of fakery. The same source is suspected on making other crested Johnson's and who knows what else.

[oldtirediron 0]

A lot of work and a lot of time!! But Why??????

[devildog87 0]

The "W" crest was put on several rifles by someone in Califonia years ago. I have one and we had several at the Houston get-together some years ago. They have several size markings but all have the same error which means they were pantograph engraved with non original pattern. They are not factory produced but an interesting example of fakery. The same source is suspected on making other crested Johnson's and who knows what else.

[devildog87 0]

Joe,

You saved me again. There is a crested Johnson for auction at RIA. I just removed my bid.

Thank you!!

[Wubbman 0]

Thanks for the info. Does anyone else think there's something wrong with the metellurgy of that receiver? Look at the area just after the nomenclature. Does that look welded to anyone else?

[dash 0]

Mine looks just like that....where the radiator and the receiver meet.

I read a topic from June where someone asked why it looked that way. I believe the jist of the response was that there were 2 arc welding machines at the plant and each had a different setting. I think most people would prefer the finished look of the later Johnsons, but now that I know it's part of the history, I'm ok with it.

http://johnsonautomatics.com/messageboard/index.php?showtopic=1482&st=0&p=4747&hl=receiver%20&fromsearch=1&#entry4747

[ryche_me 0]

As i understand the JSAR was welded there originally. The front part or "radiator" was a stamped, formed then welded to the rear section that was machined. Some welds are better looking than others, but if its on your rifle they are all good!

Plus you have a really cool piece with a good story to tell. I have been sorta looking for one but the only one i saw advertised, the guy wanted a fortune for it. He didn't know they were faked.

Very cool piece

Ryche

[Joseph Scott 0]

I saw the factory movie (property of Johnson family) which shows the welding operation. The operator fits the front onto the receiver and then the special welder forces the pieces together with sparks flying everywhere, no welding hood, no gloves, no OHSA. I am no sure why the different welds but believe me, they are strong and original.

[Adriaan de Jong 0]

I saw the factory movie (property of Johnson family)

Now that would be a movie that I am interested in.

Adriaan

[ryche_me 0]

Hey I agree i would love to see that movie. What are the chances of that??? :D

Ryche

[Brian Alpert 0]

This JSAR is a unique configuration called a “crest” rifle among Johnson collectors. The “W” crest engraved on this rifle stands for Wilhelmina, Queen of the Netherlands in 1941. This rifle, sometimes referred to as a “Queens Guard Carbine”, has a short 19” barrel and matching numbers on receiver, bolt and barrel.

These rifles were refurbished / assembled by “OLD BENECIA ARSENAL” in the early 1970’s with parts from Winfield Arms. Winfield bought surplus rifles from the Dutch, parts from Numrich Arms and sold reworked and/or sporterized JSARs in the 50’s and 60’s. Indeed,most JSARs today were originally sold by Winfield.

There is no record that a configuration such as this was originally produced by Johnson Automatics. The origin or purpose of the crest is unknown. Comparison of these crests has shown them to be of different sizes and done with a pantograph as Joseph Scott has noted.

Less than a dozen Johnson “crest” rifles are known to exist. Mexican “crests” exist and French “crests” have been reported. They are of interest in their own right and as long as on does not try to pass them off on the unsuspecting as rare factory variations, no harm is done. As noted in an earlier post on this topic, Rock Island Auction is featuring a "W" crested JSAR in their current auction. They featured a "Model 1948 " JSAR with a Mexican crest in their September auction. I personally have a "W" crested JSAR as well as a Mexican crested LMG look-a-like.

[Joseph Scott 0]

The manufacturing movie is private property and is not available for viewing at this time. In the future, it will be donated to a national musuem and may available at that time, Joe

[oldtirediron 0]

I had a FN 1922 .380 so called water pistol about 10 years ago. It had the crest also Came with a German belt Buckle (SS) Belt and holster and the capture paper intact neat piece !! Only crested Fn 1922 380 I have ever seen and had two matching mags to boot !