High serial number

[Joseph Scott 0]

I was contacted about rifle B88xx. He said that someone stated it was highest they had seen. If correct, this raises production number into the 28,000 range. Has anyone seen higher? Comments?

[Joseph Scott 0]

I looked in my safe and found rifle B80xx and B77xx, so I am now fairly sure production went into 28,000 range, maybe more. Import numbers account for about 20-21,000, so where are the the others? There are some in Canada but I believe they were part of the Winfield purchase. Rumor has 800 in Cuba from the Bay of Pigs, but they were purchased here from the re-imports. Maybe there are some still to be found.

[ryche_me 0]

I looked and i have no prefix #'s on any of mine so i'm really no help here Ryche

Whoops I lied i do have a B46XX still not high enough to play though Ryche

[Joseph Scott 0]

Now that I think about it, I do not see as many A series as none and B series.

[JEM 0]

Over the pass couple years I have jotted down JSA rifle numbers I have seen on auction sites and web photos. I have listed 116 with no prefix, 29 with "A" prefix and 83 with "B" prefix. If, as stated in Canfield's book that there were 9,999 units in each of 3 blocks, that could mean that 29,997 rifles may have be manufactured and my count is less than one percent of the total. Lots of rifles to be counted!

[barkerka 0]

My safe has B80xx as well

[Brian Alpert 0]

At one time, I had B8959. I still have B8408 and B8251. In the 15 + years I have really been into JSARs, the vast majority of those I have seen....probably approaching 100....have been no prefix or B.

[Joseph Scott 0]

Where are the A series rifles or is there some production history missing?

[Brian Alpert 0]

I suspect there were only a few thousand A series produced. Otherwise we would see many more of them. Supposedly, the 3 series were produced at he same time. Ah! If only we has access to the A and B logs.

[GrizzFlyer 0]

I had A90xx at one time. Sold that one last year.

[JEM 0]

On Guns America auction site there is a JSAR for sale with a serial number of A9081 which would indicate to me that the full allotment of 9999 rifles were built. That being said, with out the production records one can only speculate. Of the 18 rifles listed at the recent auction in Indianapolis not one was an "A" series. Again, "where have all the "A"s gone?"

[Joseph Scott 0]

There is a long write up on "Armchair Generals" website where someone claims to have visited the Johnson home and examined all three log books. I have been told that there was no recall of such a visit. If story is correct and there were three logs, then it is likely that a full A series were produced. It seems illogical that B series would be done at the same time. The writeup mentions the flood damaged files, so the logs apparently were not damaged. I have reservations about the story and suspect the missing logs still exist in someone's stash.

[M48TANKER 0]

name="JEM" post="7689" timestamp="1397622452"]

On Guns America auction site there is a JSAR for sale with a serial number of A9081 which would indicate to me that the full allotment of 9999 rifles were built. That being said, with out the production records one can only speculate. Of the 18 rifles listed at the recent auction in Indianapolis not one was an "A" series. Again, "where have all the "A"s gone?"

"Gone to Soldiers, every one...."

(From: "Where have all the flowers gone?"....Written by Pete Seger, performed by The Kingston Trio, also recorded by Peter, Paul and Mary)

Could't resist.

[JEM 0]

M48 TANKER: Good catch!

[Ed Johnson 0]

If anyone has read and/or can produce a copy of the article from "Armchair General" I would like very much to read it and will then comment on it after review. You can send it to me at: EdwardR.Johnson72@gmail.com Thanks in advance. ej

[Alan1945 0]

Is this the article you're talking about Joe? http://www.armchairgeneral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90673 Alan

[Joseph Scott 0]

Yes, thanks for the link. The rifle he links to is the one I saw at Tulsa some years ago. 13 US stamps of different sizes all over the place. In my opinion, they were bright, freshly made. There were several steel nails in a repair that had bright ends from fresh filing. I have a few pictures but didn't get all, because my camera battery died. The person was about 25-35 years old, would not bring the gun inside and claimed it had "field repairs". Made me look at it outside. Still seems strange unless he was a known scammer and did not want it spotted. Again in my opinion, a Bubba doctored rifle.

[Ed Johnson 0]

To Alan 1945 above, thank you for posting that link. It is difficult (for my eyes, at least)for me to read such a lengthy article on-line. I have therefore transferred it over to my E-mail program and have also printed out a 14 page copy which I will review in the next few days. In addition, I will E-mail the article to members of the Website Team for their comments and review. The author, Mr. Cremer, visited with Melvin Johnson's widow, Virginia, several times after Melvin's death in 1965. This was before she sold the house in New Haven, CT and moved elsewhere. Mr. Cremer was granted permission by her at the time to review the Johnson papers in the basement. I had already moved to NYC to start a new job by 1967 after closing down the Johnson Arms 5.7mm Spitfire project. I met Mr. Cremer once during a visit in (I believe) 1968. He expressed interest in doing a book at that time but was also busy in another field of interest. To my knowledge, he reviewed papers and copied some material with my mother's permission. I do not believe that he removed any material without permission and it is entirely possible that he may have seen production ledger books during that period. Nothing further was heard from him on the book subject. Subsequently, at one point, there was a basement flood situation at the New Haven house which caused damage to many of the Johnson papers. It was after that time that we were contacted by Robert Lamoreaux. He contracted with the family to do a research book on my father and his weapons. Robert retrieved what was salvageable from the basement papers. This only included one production log. The others didn't make it. A few years later

[Ed Johnson 0]

(this is a continuation of the above. I had to shut down my computer suddenly, yesterday, and it is back up now) ....A few years later, Robert and my older brother Melvin III worked together on two chapters of the initial manuscript which were published in the RIFLEMAN back in the '70's. Nothing further occurred until Robert and I collaborated with Bruce Canfield (who became our lead author)and Mowbray Publishing to produce the most recent Johnson book in 2002. We all keep hoping that the production logs for the A and B series will somehow re-appear. But in the above referenced article linked by "Alan 1945" written by Mr. Cremer, he makes reference to papers that were already affected by rainstorms. It was subsequent to his review that a more serious flood had then occurred in the basement. Much material was destroyed before Robert Lamoreaux made his inspection a few years later. I have no reason to believe that the A and B ledgers survived the flood....or that they were stolen from my mother's house. If they somehow DID survive, and should they miraculously reappear, I would be delighted to visit and confront the "owners" of those ledgers on very short notice, accompanied by local police, to inquire why and how they have come to be in possession of stolen Johnson family property. Anyway, as mentioned, the Website Team will be able to review Mr. Cremer's article.

[ryche_me 0]

Is it possible that MR. Cremer made some copies of the missing logs??? If he is no longer avalb. perhaps his family would have the copies if they are still around. Just keeping my fingers crossed on this one Ryche

[Ed Johnson 0]

As far as I know, he did not, but I suppose anything is possible. He is still alive and can probably be reached through the above Link from Alan 1945 above.

[Ed Johnson 0]

You may be able to connect with Mr. Cremer via the above article link posted from "Alan 1945" and I believe he has posted on this site previously.

[Ed Johnson 0]

Try reaching Mr. Cremer directly via the above article he wrote. I believe he has also posted on this site.

[Alan1945 0]

Ed and Joe; No problem. Glad I could be of assistance. It would be great if the A and B-series logs are still out there somewhere. Alan

[oldtirediron 0]

This may be something someone may want to do-- Advertise in the local papers for Johnson Factory memorbilia!! Maybe some one garbage picked the damaged records! I can admit to be a garbage picker and have picked some great records from Rock-OLA; Quality Hardware Company successors; and Overton woodworking-- When they were cleaning they consIdered the old records to be nothing but trash and I was even helped on one occasion loading my van with piles of paperwork !! So who knows those old records could be out there somewhere in someones garage or basement !! Maybe a duplicate set of production records exist somewhere else!! So maybe someone from the Factory area location or other places where the records were stored can be investigated!!